[prev in list] [next in list] [prev in thread] [next in thread] 

List:       kde-kimageshop
Subject:    Log + Report of: IRC MEETING Monday 20:00 - 22:00 CET
From:       Boudewijn Rempt <boud () valdyas ! org>
Date:       2011-01-03 12:55:11
Message-ID: 201101031355.11721.boud () valdyas ! org
[Download RAW message or body]

On Thursday 30 December 2010, Adam C. wrote:
> On Thu, 30 Dec 2010 09:40:03 +0100, Boudewijn Rempt <boud@valdyas.org>  
> wrote:
> 
> > On Thursday 30 December 2010, Adam C. wrote:
> > 
> > > sorry that i couldn't attend. are there any logs or something?
> > I'm working on a log + report, but got sidetracked a bit by the release  
> > and caring for Irina.
> > 
> 
> ok, all the best for irina :)

It was a fun meeting. I've attached the log. These are the basic resolutions:

Sponsored development:

* We still have ~2400 euros left (though I'm behind on my administration)

* Silvio will finish his sponsorship in 2011. He would like Dmitry to fix the crop \
tool (see other mail in this thread), Lukas to focus on bad bugs and Pentalis to \
write a really good mixing brush.

* For 2011, we'll try to setup a fund-raiser to have one Krita developer work \
together with the Blender people on issues they have during their next project. Boud \
will contact Ton asap.

There might be movement on the topic of windows installers for Calligra, so it is not \
likely that we'll have to spend money on that.

LGM:

Lukas, Animtim, Billstei and Kubuntiac want to go to LGM. Lukas will present Krita, \
Animtim will do a workshop. I need an overview of everyone's travel and accomodation \
costs ASAP so I can send a proposal to the KDE e.V.

Sprint:

Boud will contact ingwa/troubalex to ask how to get the Linux Hotel for the Krita \
sprint. I'll do that this week. Then we can set a date and ask Claudia to help with \
the necessary visums.

Website:

Kubuntiac and boud will review the website. We'll create a cool projects for \
newcomers page. I also want a prominent features page.

Manual:

Not much is going to happen there for now. I'm still working on it, but my \
scalability is getting worse and worse, it seems.

-- 
Boudewijn Rempt | http://www.valdyas.org, http://www.krita.org


["krita_meeting.log" (text/x-log)]

27.12.2010-20:01 < slangkamp> meeting here or in another channel?
27.12.2010-20:01 < sgrosso> hi everyone, I am Silvio Grosso :-)
27.12.2010-20:01 < boud>  meeting here
27.12.2010-20:01 < boud> I'm preparing the introduction right now
27.12.2010-20:02 < Pentalis> Hi!
27.12.2010-20:02 < sgrosso> Hi Pentalis :-)
27.12.2010-20:02 < boud> if we have an incursion of users or new people who want to \
contribute, please, let's wait with the beginner's questions until after the meeting \
27.12.2010-20:02 < plassy> slangkamp: hmm... yes... that could be right... but german \
wouldn't be the problem here :P ... but of course i don't know how it would look in \
japanese or hindu 27.12.2010-20:04 < boud> ok...
27.12.2010-20:04 < boud> please: Let's start the Krita-in-2010 and what'll we do in \
2011 meeting. 27.12.2010-20:04 < boud> we;re still missing dmitry, though
27.12.2010-20:04 < LukasT> hello
27.12.2010-20:04 < LukasT> I made it "é
27.12.2010-20:04 < boud> and he  was available around now, according to the doodle!
27.12.2010-20:05 < boud> LukasT: great!
27.12.2010-20:05 < boud> you rock!
27.12.2010-20:05 < boud> I'd like to start with a bit of an introduction -- and then \
we can start discussing how we can make 2011 even better than 2010 27.12.2010-20:06 < \
boud> We did a great job this year! Krita 2.3 really is ready to be used by real \
artists. Thanks to everybody. 27.12.2010-20:06 < LukasT> sgrosso: hi, nice to meet \
you on-line :) 27.12.2010-20:06 < sgrosso> Hi Lukas ;-)
27.12.2010-20:06  * LukasT see boud doing psssst 
27.12.2010-20:06 < boud> :-)
27.12.2010-20:06 < boud> ok...
27.12.2010-20:07 < boud> Reviewing the past year: I think we really did a great job. \
We've still got ~2400 euros in cash, but I still owe dmitry for december \
27.12.2010-20:07 < boud> I've been sick... 27.12.2010-20:08 < boud> So we've got two \
people working paid part-time on krita: Lukas and Dmitry 27.12.2010-20:08 < boud> \
Silvio, Pentalis and I did discuss sponsorship for Pentalis, for the creation of a \
mixing brush up to and above gimp-paint standards -- this seems an important feature \
for the next release, to seduce more artists 27.12.2010-20:08 -!- dmitryK \
[~dmitryK@94.232.66.212] has joined #krita 27.12.2010-20:08 < boud> hi dmitryK 
27.12.2010-20:09 < boud> dmitryK: you might want to take me up on my offer of a shell \
account on valdyas.org, so you have access to the backlog :P 27.12.2010-20:09 < \
CyrilleB> :) 27.12.2010-20:09 < LukasT> dmitryK: http://pastebin.ca/2030720
27.12.2010-20:09 < boud> Krita 2.3 is about to be released, with just one known, \
reproducible crash bug (mpeg... !!!) 27.12.2010-20:09 < dmitryK> boud: when the \
meeting starts? I need to have a dinner 27.12.2010-20:09 < LukasT> dmitryK: now
27.12.2010-20:10 < boud> it started 9 minutes ago
27.12.2010-20:10 < boud> but I don't mind if you eat and attend at the same time.
27.12.2010-20:10 < boud> you're even allowed to speak with your mouth full of food!
27.12.2010-20:10 < Pentalis> Also known as eattending
27.12.2010-20:11 < LukasT> boud: more will follow about the introduction?
27.12.2010-20:12 < Kubuntiac> Pentalis: Groan! lol
27.12.2010-20:12 < boud> in 2010, we've had a great Krita sprint, introduced lots of \
people to hacking on Krita and -- I think -- finally got Krita out of the apology \
state! 27.12.2010-20:12 < Kubuntiac> \o/
27.12.2010-20:12 < slangkamp> yay
27.12.2010-20:13 < boud> so... feel free to give your input about 2010, good and bad \
for now, then let's start making plans for 2011 27.12.2010-20:13 < LukasT> finally we \
can call it software :) 27.12.2010-20:13 < LukasT> Let me start
27.12.2010-20:14 < boud> sure, go ahead!
27.12.2010-20:14 < LukasT> I think this year for Krita was really great
27.12.2010-20:14 < slangkamp> it was!
27.12.2010-20:14 < LukasT> The two sponsored part-time developers and a lot of Google \
Summer Of Code slots was very moving thing in the community I think 27.12.2010-20:15 \
< Kubuntiac> It made lots of good news which I think raised community interest \
27.12.2010-20:15 < Kubuntiac> All the stuff you guys did I mean 27.12.2010-20:15 < \
LukasT> Also there are really commited contributors of code, especially slangkamp and \
CyrilleB who did a lot of work in their spare time 27.12.2010-20:15 < LukasT> boud \
did great job with LWiK's and he started the manual 27.12.2010-20:16 < LukasT> and I \
think we managed to create good atmosphere where we mix sponsored work and hobby work \
without any conflicts 27.12.2010-20:17 < boud> there have been remarkably few fights \
in krita -- especially considering the size of our community and the level of \
activity. 27.12.2010-20:17 < boud> that's great
27.12.2010-20:17 < LukasT> I don't remember any fight, or was it?
27.12.2010-20:17 < slangkamp> me neither :)
27.12.2010-20:17 < boud> there was a big discussion some time ago without any \
resolution, so I had to call maintainer rights and make a decision 27.12.2010-20:18 < \
boud> which promptly meant everyone united and did what I hadn't decided -- but that \
was great :-) 27.12.2010-20:18 < boud> I don;t really remember the topic, though
27.12.2010-20:18 < Kubuntiac> lol
27.12.2010-20:19 < boud> For me, this year was shear madness, but that was mainly \
because of my new job. Being a cubible-hole hacker tended to leave me plenty of spare \
time for Krita 27.12.2010-20:19 < LukasT> ok, I think I'm done :)
27.12.2010-20:19 < boud> working in my own company was different, especially since \
that work focussed aronud koffice -- still, I did make a fair number of commits \
27.12.2010-20:20 < slangkamp> ok, now next year? 27.12.2010-20:20 < boud> as said \
above, we managed to finally "fix" krita and make it a real application people can \
depend on. 27.12.2010-20:20 < boud> slangkamp: for next year...
27.12.2010-20:20 < boud> (unless other people want to chip in with a bit of \
retrospective...) 27.12.2010-20:21 < Kubuntiac> I had fun. Thats about it for me. :)
27.12.2010-20:22 < boud> anyone else who wants to look back a bit?
27.12.2010-20:22 < Pentalis> I only have a small thing to say, but I think it's \
important 27.12.2010-20:22 -!- mattho \
[5f69e047@gateway/web/freenode/ip.95.105.224.71] has quit [Quit: Page closed] \
27.12.2010-20:22 -!- matusT [5f69e047@gateway/web/freenode/ip.95.105.224.71] has \
joined #krita 27.12.2010-20:22 < boud> shoot!
27.12.2010-20:22 < LukasT> Let me note that we should be thankful to KDE for \
sponsoring our sprints, both KOffice sprints per year and Krita sprint -- we manage \
to meet sometimes 3 times a year :) 27.12.2010-20:22 < Kubuntiac> aye
27.12.2010-20:23 < boud> Pentalis has the floor
27.12.2010-20:23 < Pentalis> I always wanted to participate of an open source \
project, but I never found a community welcoming enough, and enough self-discipline, \
or enough knowledge, to get anything done. When I participated for GSoC for Krita \
this year I could find it all. 27.12.2010-20:23 < Pentalis> I think this community \
has everything needed to attract people of all corners of the talent slider, let's \
exploit that  :> 27.12.2010-20:23 < Pentalis> That's all.
27.12.2010-20:24 < boud> Pfui to the other projects you approached -- krita is the \
richer for your presence! 27.12.2010-20:24 -!- sgrosso \
[~chatzilla@host152-218-dynamic.41-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Read \
error: Connection reset by peer] 27.12.2010-20:24 -!- sgrosso \
[~chatzilla@host152-218-dynamic.41-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #krita \
27.12.2010-20:24 < boud> Anyone else about 2010? 27.12.2010-20:24 < slangkamp> I note \
that we also have a new record number of people in this channel :) 27.12.2010-20:24 < \
boud> :-) 27.12.2010-20:25 < LukasT> CIA is listing and some Assagne is around, hm...
27.12.2010-20:25 < boud> :P
27.12.2010-20:25 < LukasT> Dear Children, Santa is Mom and Dad. Merry Christmas, \
Wikileaks 27.12.2010-20:25 < boud> okay -- about next year
27.12.2010-20:25  * dmitryK is reading backlog...  hum.. hum..
27.12.2010-20:25 < Kubuntiac> Agreed. I think the *friendliness* of the Krita \
community is unusually high and one of the things that made me stick around (I leave \
it to you all to decide if thaat's a good thing  ;P) 27.12.2010-20:26 < boud> \
Kubuntiac: without you we wouldn't have a website - but I think there might be some \
work on the website soonish... 27.12.2010-20:26 < Kubuntiac> ...!
27.12.2010-20:26 < boud> dmitryK: anything you want to add about 2010?
27.12.2010-20:26 < Kubuntiac> Ready and willing.
27.12.2010-20:28 < dmitryK> erm... 1) stress tests; 2) optimization of mask \
generation with complex maths; 3) ROI for the scheduler; 4) and new multithreaded \
system for the tools (discussed earlier) 27.12.2010-20:28 < dmitryK> but 4) is really \
too big, it worth the whole soc ;) 27.12.2010-20:28 < boud> dmitryK: if you want to \
achieve that in 2010, you've got some work to do! 27.12.2010-20:29 < LukasT> :)
27.12.2010-20:29 < LukasT> dmitryK: 3 days and we count it, go!
27.12.2010-20:29 < Kubuntiac> Bah. A whole 70 hours! Easy!
27.12.2010-20:30 < slangkamp> so 2011 now?
27.12.2010-20:30 < boud> yeah
27.12.2010-20:30 < boud> couple of points:
27.12.2010-20:30 < boud> Let me first enumerate them, then we can add other points \
and discuss.... 27.12.2010-20:30 < boud> fundraising and with which goal
27.12.2010-20:30 < boud> whither the manual
27.12.2010-20:31 < boud> growing the community and keeping people coding outside \
gsoc/gci 27.12.2010-20:31 < boud> the 2011 krita sprint
27.12.2010-20:31 < boud> lgm attendance (may 10-13)
27.12.2010-20:31 < boud> my scalability
27.12.2010-20:31 < boud> goals for krita as an application
27.12.2010-20:31 < boud> any other points?
27.12.2010-20:31 < boud> (no particular order implied in my list...)
27.12.2010-20:32 < Pentalis> You mean things for 2011?, Krita Windows client.
27.12.2010-20:32 < Kubuntiac> packaging? (OBS, windows etc?) may be under "growing \
the community" 27.12.2010-20:32 < LukasT> I would add brainstorm the projects
27.12.2010-20:32 < boud> windows is a good point to put separately. I have some \
insider info on that, though. 27.12.2010-20:32 < LukasT> just titles and then we can \
note them  27.12.2010-20:32 < Kubuntiac> !
27.12.2010-20:33 < boud> LukasT: sure
27.12.2010-20:33 < boud> we've got dmitry's goals, right -- and that means dmitry \
wants to go for a gsoc again, if I understand him correctly 27.12.2010-20:35 < \
LukasT> I had idea to put one krita developer for some fixed time frame into \
Blender's project 27.12.2010-20:35 < boud> this is what I have now:
27.12.2010-20:35 < boud> http://pastebin.com/UsFeDa7B
27.12.2010-20:35 < boud> LukasT: can you explain a bit more about that?
27.12.2010-20:35 < LukasT> and that would need fund raising so that he can stay with \
the team 27.12.2010-20:36 < LukasT> Blender is going to do some new project again -- \
open source movie. And they usually have requirements and they have blender coders \
around who code what they need. 27.12.2010-20:37 < LukasT> I think it would take a \
lot of attention to Krita if we would offer Krita developer for few weeks to work \
with the team so that they can use Krita 27.12.2010-20:37 < LukasT> he would solve \
the issues they have, fix bugs etc. 27.12.2010-20:37 < LukasT> but it is just crazy \
idea , what do you think? :) 27.12.2010-20:38 < boud> it's a good idea -- though I \
see one drawback 27.12.2010-20:38 < matusT> very good idea :)
27.12.2010-20:38 < boud> it would mean giving Ton direct influence on what goes into \
Krita -- but that might be ok 27.12.2010-20:38 < LukasT> branch
27.12.2010-20:38 < LukasT> krita-blender
27.12.2010-20:38 < LukasT> and we can merge what we want
27.12.2010-20:38 < LukasT> that's how they do it with blender
27.12.2010-20:38 < LukasT> not everything is going into the master
27.12.2010-20:39 < boud> it could work very well
27.12.2010-20:39 < dmitryK> LukasT: it would be better if that developer had a direct \
access to the blender team (i mean living in the same country/city/house... ) \
27.12.2010-20:39 < LukasT> they have some render branch if I remember correctly \
27.12.2010-20:39 < slangkamp> first we have to get their requirements \
27.12.2010-20:39 < boud> if it's for a month, we can figure out something \
27.12.2010-20:39 < slangkamp> that was the problem last year 27.12.2010-20:39 < \
LukasT> dmitryK: yep, here comes the fundraising to allow that 27.12.2010-20:39 < \
LukasT> slangkamp: I agree 27.12.2010-20:39 < Kubuntiac> I think its a great idea. We \
can always have a blender branch and cherry pick. Durian movie was made with an \
"unofficial" build of Blender that then cherry picked 27.12.2010-20:39 < boud> and it \
needs coordination with the blender team of course, but I can see it work out \
27.12.2010-20:40 < LukasT> only problem I see is, who is going to be the developer :) \
I can't though I wish I could,I'm working full-time :( 27.12.2010-20:40 < Kubuntiac> \
me! me! me!... actually probably not a good idea... 27.12.2010-20:40 < billstei> what \
is the time-frame for the next Blender project/movie? 27.12.2010-20:40 < boud> yeah, \
that's an issue. But we first need to figure out the timeframe 27.12.2010-20:41 < \
LukasT> I think it is not set yet 27.12.2010-20:41 < boud> billstei: is right -- I'm \
not sure about when they start, but I can find out 27.12.2010-20:41 < Kubuntiac> Ton \
has said "after blender final is out" 27.12.2010-20:41 < LukasT> Ton mentioned \
something in the keynote  27.12.2010-20:41 < slangkamp> timeframe isn't set from what \
I saw in the video form blender conference 27.12.2010-20:41 < LukasT> Kubuntiac: but \
he was kidding then :) 27.12.2010-20:41 < Kubuntiac> He's been very vague but hinted \
probably later this year 27.12.2010-20:41 < LukasT> yes, somewhere in the end of the \
may 2011 or something they will start 27.12.2010-20:42 < boud> so... plenty of time \
to figure something out and start a campaign. Action point for me, ask Ton about this \
plan? 27.12.2010-20:42 < slangkamp> the good thing if we say that we are working on \
features for blender people we can get help from the much bigger blender community \
27.12.2010-20:42 < billstei> what kinds of changes will the Blender ppl be looking \
for?  usability or features? 27.12.2010-20:42 < LukasT> performance
27.12.2010-20:42 < LukasT> stability
27.12.2010-20:43 < boud> and features... usability I doubt...
27.12.2010-20:43 < Kubuntiac> openexr working really well
27.12.2010-20:43 < boud> but we had lots of input this year already
27.12.2010-20:43 < Kubuntiac> (Which it may be already, I dont know)
27.12.2010-20:43 < slangkamp> yeah ton doesn't care much about usuability
27.12.2010-20:43 < LukasT> :D
27.12.2010-20:43 < boud> with openexr in krita being "correct" but not compatible \
with the way blender messed openexr up. 27.12.2010-20:44 < boud> but we can discuss \
that with ton 27.12.2010-20:44 < billstei> ton = ?
27.12.2010-20:44 < Kubuntiac> Lead dev of blender
27.12.2010-20:44 < slangkamp> ton roosendaal
27.12.2010-20:44 < boud> ton roosendaal, the blender benevolent dictator for life
27.12.2010-20:44 < billstei> ok
27.12.2010-20:44 < Spell> dictator, huh?
27.12.2010-20:45 < billstei> I would also like to hear the needs of ppl like David \
Revoy 27.12.2010-20:45 < boud> we still have an offer for getting 2.3 release \
publicity for krita through the blender blog -- and I still need to write the text. \
27.12.2010-20:45 -!- sinozzuke [~sinozzuke@167.204.218.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has \
quit [Remote host closed the connection] 27.12.2010-20:45 < LukasT> Ok, next?
27.12.2010-20:45 < slangkamp> most important is that we have a list of things that \
the blender people need, last year we were too late and they were to busy with the \
movie 27.12.2010-20:45 < Kubuntiac> boud: I'm happy to help with any editing if you \
want an English native speaker 27.12.2010-20:45 < Pentalis> I remember their most \
important needs: freely rotating canvas, customizable hotkeys for everything, quality \
mixbrush (preferably of watercolor tendencies) 27.12.2010-20:45 < boud> billstei: \
david revoy hangs out here regularly. krita still isn't fast enough for him, though \
-- but the last time he tried it was more like "I'm not completely familiar yet, and \
I am in a hurry now" 27.12.2010-20:46 -!- sinozzuke \
[~sinozzuke@167.204.218.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #krita 27.12.2010-20:46  * \
Pentalis corrects himself after reading boud, "their most important needs other than \
performance and stability" 27.12.2010-20:46 < boud> Pentalis: well, hotkeys and mix \
brush is something we need to focus on 27.12.2010-20:46 < boud> LukasT: right, I've \
got an action point and I'll contact Ton this year 27.12.2010-20:47 < boud> so -- \
next 27.12.2010-20:47 < LukasT> Manual
27.12.2010-20:47 < slangkamp> boud: did you hear anything from Dreamworks?
27.12.2010-20:47 < Kubuntiac> I think there's some definite usability stuff that \
could be improved without much coding, but failing that docs on how Kirta's system \
works as its quite different to PS / Gimp / 27.12.2010-20:47 < boud> I've horribly \
over-estimated my own spare time for the manual :-( 27.12.2010-20:48 < LukasT> boud: \
ok, do we need to sponsor you to find time? 27.12.2010-20:48 < boud> slangkamp: no, \
though Imailed them tw times 27.12.2010-20:48 < boud> LukasT: I'm too overcommitted
27.12.2010-20:48 < verbalshadow> boud: it is up somewhere we can look at/edit?
27.12.2010-20:48 < boud> verbalshadow: yes, on userbase.kde.org
27.12.2010-20:49 < boud> verbalshadow: what we need for the manual is one author, to \
keep consistency of style 27.12.2010-20:49 < LukasT> boud: ok, but there is this \
point manual, if we would fund raise that one, what the money will be used for? \
27.12.2010-20:49 < boud> verbalshadow: and then a host of people to fix it up, do \
screenshots and then edit 27.12.2010-20:49 < LukasT> I noticed e.g. in Inkscape that \
they don't do fund raising for books or manuals 27.12.2010-20:49 < LukasT> but I \
might be mistaken.. 27.12.2010-20:49 < boud> LukasT: well
27.12.2010-20:49 < boud> the difference is, inkscape is big enough that publishers \
pay authors (badly) to write books 27.12.2010-20:49 < boud> and that helps a lot
27.12.2010-20:50 < boud> and though irina has done her first bit of artwork with \
Krita, I doubt she's got the knowledge about raster graphics apps to write a handbook \
27.12.2010-20:50 < verbalshadow> LukasT: we have done flossmanuals drives in inkscape \
27.12.2010-20:50 < LukasT> verbalshadow: yes, good point, can you share what they \
provide? 27.12.2010-20:51 < slangkamp> so we just need to grow big enough that people \
are paid to write books about Krita 27.12.2010-20:51 < Kubuntiac> Seems to me that if \
we focus on getting the app out to users (ie OBS / Win / Mac) we get more non-coder \
contributors to work on doco etc 27.12.2010-20:51 < boud> slangkamp: I trust that we \
reach that point in 2011, actually! Depending ontheir being a windows installer. \
27.12.2010-20:51 < Kubuntiac> Right now we need all our coders, well, coding :) \
27.12.2010-20:51 < verbalshadow> they provide a wiki like editing environment and \
output to pdf and other formats IIRC 27.12.2010-20:51 < LukasT> we already have Mag. \
Leonhard Landrock 27.12.2010-20:51 < LukasT> he also worked on the manual
27.12.2010-20:51 < LukasT> verbalshadow: they don't fund, ya?
27.12.2010-20:52 < verbalshadow> not that i recall, we have promoted books by \
community members like Tav 27.12.2010-20:53 < slangkamp> once there are books we \
could earn some money from that too 27.12.2010-20:53 < LukasT> I personally think we \
should focus for 2011 on fundraising the development again.  27.12.2010-20:54 < \
LukasT> I would post-pone the manual, what other thinks? 27.12.2010-20:54 < boud> \
well 27.12.2010-20:54 < boud> I think that getting interesting in writing a manual is \
dependent on having a good version of krita for windows 27.12.2010-20:54 < Kubuntiac> \
I think a manual is mainly important when yo uhave users to use it, thus my focus on \
easy deployment for users 27.12.2010-20:54 < boud> I also think that writing a manual \
now is speculative, but could really pay out for the author 27.12.2010-20:54 < \
verbalshadow> http://userbase.kde.org/Applications/en is anyone else see non-english \
on this page? 27.12.2010-20:55 < verbalshadow> seeing
27.12.2010-20:55 < boud> verbalshadow: yes :-). Looks like Romanian
27.12.2010-20:55 < Kubuntiac> Yeah I see something...looks like... Catlan?
27.12.2010-20:55 < LukasT> http://userbase.kde.org/Applications
27.12.2010-20:56 < LukasT> that works in english
27.12.2010-20:56 < Pentalis> -- I believe getting Krita packaged for Windows will \
attract more users than a well written manual. My rationale is: Windows users are \
numerous, there is bound to be some of them making posts in their blogs, comments in \
Wikis, and maybe even a YouTube video explaining the software if they grow to love \
it.   ----  They did it with SAI, and I've seen it grow constantly in popularity. \
27.12.2010-20:56 < boud> ok 27.12.2010-20:56 < boud> let's go to the windows version \
then 27.12.2010-20:56 < slangkamp> but the windows version needs to be good
27.12.2010-20:56 < boud> yes
27.12.2010-20:57 < boud> two things I want to note before we start the discussion:
27.12.2010-20:57 < Pentalis> Yes, it must be as good as the Linux version which in \
turn needs to be fabulous, or the chance to win hype will be wasted. 27.12.2010-20:57 \
< LukasT> Just note that Windows version does not bring Windows developers \
http://prokoudine.info/blog/2010/12/the-more-the-better/ 27.12.2010-20:57 < \
Kubuntiac> I was thinking about that post 27.12.2010-20:57 < boud> * the digikam \
windows installer works -- but they are kept back by the quality of kde on windows \
27.12.2010-20:57 < Kubuntiac> I think the problem is he makes no distinction between \
users and community 27.12.2010-20:57 < boud> for gimp, it doesn't bring developers, \
but it does bring a stream of money, articles and books 27.12.2010-20:58 < Kubuntiac> \
Gimp has a lot of users, but it doesn't seem that community focussed for it's size. \
Compare that to Blender. 27.12.2010-20:58 < boud> * there's a foundation in the \
netherlands that might want to sponsor KO to create a calligra installer for windows \
27.12.2010-20:58 < LukasT> oh, that sounds good 27.12.2010-20:58 < boud> if there's a \
calligra installer, krita will be easy. And KO GmbH has currently a job candidate \
who's an expert on windows installers and things 27.12.2010-20:59 < boud> so I hope \
that the installer will come; the problem will still be the quality of the kde libs \
on windows. 27.12.2010-20:59 < slangkamp> cool
27.12.2010-20:59 < billstei> so the WIndows version is dependent on KDE or QT ?
27.12.2010-20:59 < LukasT> billstei: both
27.12.2010-20:59 < slangkamp> both
27.12.2010-20:59 < boud> billstei: both
27.12.2010-20:59 < boud> :-)
27.12.2010-20:59 < billstei> :(
27.12.2010-21:00  * dmitryK 's english reading is too slow to get it time with others \
typing =) 27.12.2010-21:00 < boud> and it's not even the libraries that are the \
problem: it's the daemons, imo. 27.12.2010-21:00 < LukasT> dmitryK: we can change the \
language to german, I'm in Munich, they don't speak English there so I'm trapped \
27.12.2010-21:01 < boud> ach, nein! Nicht auf Deutch!  27.12.2010-21:01 < LukasT> \
boud: would it give sense to fund raise somebody from Krita to support the KO effort \
? 27.12.2010-21:01 < boud> LukasT: I don't think so.
27.12.2010-21:01 < boud> LukasT: if the KO thing doesn't work out, then we'll have to \
make a new plan 27.12.2010-21:01 < Kubuntiac> Probably better to help efforts for KO \
to raise funds for themselves 27.12.2010-21:01 < boud> otherwise we'll just be \
duplicating effort, I think. 27.12.2010-21:01 < LukasT> ok, let's make it conditional \
point  27.12.2010-21:02 < dmitryK> well, men, what i understood from the discussion: \
"We need to make it very stable and very user friendly first. That is the starting \
point of every way." 27.12.2010-21:02 < LukasT> dmitryK: wrong
27.12.2010-21:02 < boud> so, Windows is important, but we don't have to spend effort \
on it. 27.12.2010-21:02 < LukasT> dmitryK: stable and fast
27.12.2010-21:02 < boud> LukasT: dmitryK is right
27.12.2010-21:02 < boud> ah, ok
27.12.2010-21:02 < boud> stable is the main thing :-)
27.12.2010-21:02 < LukasT> we don't care about user friendy, we here on IRC are user \
friendly already 27.12.2010-21:02 < boud> we really need to become as allergic to \
crashes as the Nasa is :P 27.12.2010-21:03 < dmitryK> LukasT: i think user-friendly \
includes the definition of "fast" =) 27.12.2010-21:03 < LukasT> ok, then the Windows \
installer is solved 27.12.2010-21:03 < boud> LGM now?
27.12.2010-21:03 < LukasT> ok
27.12.2010-21:03 < LukasT> I would like to attend the LGM in Canada
27.12.2010-21:03 < boud> LukasT and Animtim intend to go to LGM in Montreal, right?
27.12.2010-21:04 < boud> Both need to submit presentations and ask KDE e.V. for \
sponsorship -- but that won't be a problem 27.12.2010-21:04 < Kubuntiac> I may be \
able to make Montreal, too 27.12.2010-21:04 < boud> I also think that it won't be a \
problem for others to go and get sponsorship 27.12.2010-21:04 < LukasT> I would like \
to report our progress in Krita development and do some showcase of the hot features \
and not just paintops this time 27.12.2010-21:04 < boud> Kubuntiac: you're no doubt \
eligible for sponsorship as well 27.12.2010-21:04 < boud> LukasT: right
27.12.2010-21:04 < Kubuntiac> he, I don't think Id need it
27.12.2010-21:04 < Kubuntiac> Its one 5 hours drive from here
27.12.2010-21:05 < boud> anyone else who wants to go?
27.12.2010-21:05 < LukasT> Animtim's role would be to do some Krita workshop
27.12.2010-21:05 < boud> Pentalis, billstei: you're in the same half of the globe, \
aren't you? 27.12.2010-21:05 < Pentalis> boud: Same half, different quarter
27.12.2010-21:06 < LukasT> :D
27.12.2010-21:06 < billstei> yes, I would go but is the cost justified?
27.12.2010-21:06 < boud> Pentalis: still....
27.12.2010-21:06 < kig> re: stable, do you have unit tests? 
27.12.2010-21:06 < dmitryK> btw, about speed: Krita's blur filter on core 2 duo works \
slower than PS7 on AthlonXP 2000+ eight years old =( 27.12.2010-21:06 < boud> \
billstei: kde contributors get funded to visit conferences like this 27.12.2010-21:06 \
* Pentalis googles LGM quickly to see what it is about 27.12.2010-21:06 < boud> \
Kubuntiac: yes, about a hundred 27.12.2010-21:07 < boud> dmitryK: shall I put that \
under your action points? 27.12.2010-21:07 < billstei> I will go if someone pays for \
(most of) it 27.12.2010-21:07 < LukasT> dmitryK: fix it!
27.12.2010-21:07 < LukasT> :)
27.12.2010-21:07 < Kubuntiac> boud: eh? 100 what?
27.12.2010-21:07 < boud> Kubuntiac: about a hundred unittests
27.12.2010-21:07 < boud> it was meant for kig ...
27.12.2010-21:07 < Kubuntiac> kig != kubuntiac :)
27.12.2010-21:07 < boud> stupid autocompletely, why can't it read my mind
27.12.2010-21:07 < Pentalis> boud: I don't think I am prepared to go there in 2011, I \
think 2012 will be the year (if the world doesn't end by then  ;)  ) 27.12.2010-21:07 \
< Kubuntiac> because you haven't coded it yet :) 27.12.2010-21:07 < dmitryK> boud: i \
didn't even tried to get into it yet 27.12.2010-21:08 < boud> Pentalis: let's try to \
get you to the krita sprint, though 27.12.2010-21:08 < boud> so... for lgm -- we've \
added billstei to the list of attendees. Anyone else? 27.12.2010-21:08 < dmitryK> \
LukasT: it's just about optimization on design level of newly written paitops ;P \
27.12.2010-21:08 < boud> I think I might just be too busy, though I haven't got any \
travel booked for May yet... 27.12.2010-21:08 < Kubuntiac> boud: When is the sprint?
27.12.2010-21:08 < boud> Kubuntiac: we need to discuss that next
27.12.2010-21:09  * Kubuntiac wants to make the sprint if possible, depoending on the \
wheres and whens 27.12.2010-21:09  * billstei wonders if he needs a passport for \
Canada 27.12.2010-21:09 < boud> billstei: officially, KDE e.V. pays 80 percent of \
travel/accomodation. Often it's 100%/ 27.12.2010-21:09 < Kubuntiac> billstei: yup, I \
think 27.12.2010-21:09 < billstei> 80% will do it
27.12.2010-21:09 < Kubuntiac> billstei: I need one to enter the US
27.12.2010-21:10 < LukasT> boud: wasn't it somehow related if you give a \
presentation/workshop? 27.12.2010-21:10 < boud> LukasT: yes, but even there, there's \
flexibility. Especially for people who are relatively new to KDE 27.12.2010-21:10 < \
verbalshadow> LukasT: have you ever played with the drawing program expression3, it \
has some neat brush ideas 27.12.2010-21:10 < LukasT> verbalshadow: notes that one -- \
no 27.12.2010-21:10 < billstei> i don't have much to say (yet)
27.12.2010-21:11 < boud> billstei: but a lot to learn...
27.12.2010-21:11 < billstei> mostly just complaining
27.12.2010-21:11 < boud> there's some very good beer in Montreal, as well.
27.12.2010-21:11 < billstei> Workshop: Whining and Bitching
27.12.2010-21:12 < billstei> (includes free, as in beer)
27.12.2010-21:12 < LukasT> :D
27.12.2010-21:12 < boud> :-)
27.12.2010-21:12 < LukasT> :D
27.12.2010-21:12 < boud> ok
27.12.2010-21:12 < Pentalis> dmitryK: The blur filter uses the fast foutier transform \
method of convolution, we're using an external library (FFTW) which is optimized to \
the brim in speed, so if there are bottlenecks, I think these are in other parts of \
the code. 27.12.2010-21:12 < boud> I need to take short break myself, after that, \
let's discuss the 2011 sprint 27.12.2010-21:14  * CyrilleB read a bit the backlog... \
wrt openexr, I think blender 2.50 is "fixed", but we need to fix some performance \
issues related to ctl/rgbf 27.12.2010-21:14 < billstei> i have bad knees, I can't \
sprint anywhere except the toilet 27.12.2010-21:14 < verbalshadow> billstei: i would \
attend your talk 27.12.2010-21:14 < LukasT> == ok, so here come the short commercial \
break ==  27.12.2010-21:15 < dmitryK> we just need: place, time and who will be able \
to make visa(s) ;) 27.12.2010-21:15 < CyrilleB> small things to decide
27.12.2010-21:15 < LukasT> I was offering to help boud back in Helsinki
27.12.2010-21:15 < LukasT> with the organization
27.12.2010-21:15 < LukasT> but I'm in munich for 3 months
27.12.2010-21:15 < LukasT> I though it would be somewhere in Slovakia
27.12.2010-21:16 < kig> boud: one thing that might be useful for catching crashes is \
fuzz testing (write a small script that generates random valid function calls, let it \
rip on the API). at least it's been very helpful for finding segfaults in my code \
27.12.2010-21:16 < LukasT> kig: krita is quite huge for this 27.12.2010-21:16 < \
LukasT> kig: and we don't use scripts currently, we use users to find them \
27.12.2010-21:16 < boud> kig: yes, that's a great idea. Can you help with that? \
27.12.2010-21:17 < boud> I am planning fuzzing for the calligra opendocument code, \
but i haven't considered it for krita yet 27.12.2010-21:17 < boud> And I'm not sure \
where to start 27.12.2010-21:17 < CyrilleB> different kind of fuzzing
27.12.2010-21:18 < dmitryK> kig: what is the difference between fuzzing and random \
stresstesting? 27.12.2010-21:18 < kig> hmm, i can at least do a test generator
27.12.2010-21:18 < kig> dmitryK: i have no idea, really
27.12.2010-21:18 < kig> the prob is that you kinda need a well-defined api to test
27.12.2010-21:19 < verbalshadow> random stress testing isn't always limited to valid \
inputs 27.12.2010-21:19 < boud> well, if you can give it a try... even if the outcome \
is that the api needs fixing, it's valuable. 27.12.2010-21:19 < LukasT> short \
commercial break over? 27.12.2010-21:19 < boud> yes, I'm back again :-)
27.12.2010-21:19 < LukasT> ok, the sprint
27.12.2010-21:19 < boud> the sprint
27.12.2010-21:19 < LukasT> Slovakia
27.12.2010-21:19 < LukasT> problems: I'm in Munich
27.12.2010-21:20 < LukasT> cons: cheap food and possibly cheap hotels
27.12.2010-21:20 < CyrilleB> and it is not that cheap :)
27.12.2010-21:20 < boud> and it's not a cheap as everyone thougt...
27.12.2010-21:20 < LukasT> pros of course
27.12.2010-21:20 < LukasT> I mixed it
27.12.2010-21:20 < boud> so, we need a location with a meeting room big enough for \
the bigger team. We won't fit in my house anymore 27.12.2010-21:20 < Kubuntiac> :(
27.12.2010-21:20 < LukasT> :)
27.12.2010-21:21 < boud> renting a suitable space will be ~500 euros for the weekend \
in .nl, excluding coffee 27.12.2010-21:21 < Kubuntiac> true, :)
27.12.2010-21:21 < jonnor> when are you holding this sprint?
27.12.2010-21:21 < LukasT> I would propose maybe KDAB's office?
27.12.2010-21:21 < LukasT> they used to pay one dinner ...
27.12.2010-21:21 < LukasT> jonnor: not set yet
27.12.2010-21:21 < boud> well, we're in kdab's office already for the calligra \
sprint, and I hate to impose 27.12.2010-21:21 < boud> jonnor: Q1, preferably
27.12.2010-21:21 < slangkamp> boud: we could ask ton for the blender institue ;)
27.12.2010-21:21 < boud> slangkamp: good idea, I'll ask that
27.12.2010-21:22 < Pentalis> Chile. Advantages: cheap food, cheap hotels, no need for \
Visas. Disadvantages: nobody will understand a word, it's on the other side of the \
planet. 27.12.2010-21:22 < CyrilleB> and direct flight to amsterdam :)
27.12.2010-21:22 < LukasT> Amsterdam is not cheap :(
27.12.2010-21:22 < CyrilleB> boud: there is the linux hotel too
27.12.2010-21:22 < boud> yes, that's a good option.
27.12.2010-21:22 < LukasT> CyrilleB: free as in beer?
27.12.2010-21:22 < billstei> Minneapolis: cons: snow, snow, snow  Pros: ?
27.12.2010-21:22 < boud> So action point for me; ask ton about blender instititue and \
ask troubalex/ingwa about the linux hotel. 27.12.2010-21:23 < boud> billstei: good \
beer? 27.12.2010-21:23 -!- sinozzuke [~sinozzuke@167.204.218.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] \
has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 27.12.2010-21:23 < billstei> *cold* \
beer 27.12.2010-21:23 < Kubuntiac> We also have room in North Ontario for 12-14 :) \
Not many pubs within 100k though 27.12.2010-21:23 -!- sinozzuke \
[~sinozzuke@167.204.218.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #krita 27.12.2010-21:23 < \
LukasT> Linux hotel is in Amsterdam? 27.12.2010-21:23 < CyrilleB> billstei: I would \
classify snow as pros :) 27.12.2010-21:23 < dmitryK> billstei: pros: snow, snow, \
snow! ;) 27.12.2010-21:23 < boud> and minneapolis is the home of my favourite web \
comic 27.12.2010-21:23  * dmitryK is for Minneapoli
27.12.2010-21:23 < boud> LukasT: no, near Essen
27.12.2010-21:23 < CyrilleB> LukasT: nope
27.12.2010-21:23 < slangkamp> LukasT: well after Oslo everything is cheaper :)
27.12.2010-21:23 < LukasT> slangkamp: :)
27.12.2010-21:24 < dmitryK> slangkamp: +1
27.12.2010-21:24 < CyrilleB> billstei: but I would say con: minneapolis is in the US \
;) 27.12.2010-21:24 < boud> yeah, let's never ever go to Oslo again
27.12.2010-21:24 < CyrilleB> slangkamp: we could go to switzerland ;)
27.12.2010-21:24 < LukasT> Americans!
27.12.2010-21:24  * billstei is not actually from Minneapolis
27.12.2010-21:24 < boud> ok... I think I've got an action point
27.12.2010-21:24 < slangkamp> CyrilleB: no!
27.12.2010-21:25 < CyrilleB> if we go to switzerland, we might even get bart back ;p
27.12.2010-21:25 < boud> one thing I wanted to ask was: how difficult will it be for \
people to attend for a longer period than just the weekend? 27.12.2010-21:25 < boud> \
bart! 27.12.2010-21:25 < Pentalis> I have no difficulties of any kind. Wherever the \
sprint is, my biggest problem will be getting the visa. 27.12.2010-21:25 < boud> I \
should ask him about room at his university 27.12.2010-21:25 < dmitryK> boud: for me \
the only problem is military department, but i think this is doable 27.12.2010-21:25 \
< LukasT> in Q1 I don't have many vacation :( 27.12.2010-21:26 < dmitryK> boud: so \
actually, it can be solved 27.12.2010-21:26 < boud> dmitryK: cool
27.12.2010-21:26 < slangkamp> boud: depends on the date
27.12.2010-21:26 < CyrilleB> boud: I will probably limit myself to the week-end
27.12.2010-21:26 < boud> LukasT: I don't have a lot of holidays either, and at least \
one business trip every month this year, or so it seems... 27.12.2010-21:26 < boud> \
CyrilleB: ok 27.12.2010-21:26 < boud> slangkamp: ok, we need to figure that out
27.12.2010-21:27 < billstei> i can do the sprint for a whole year
27.12.2010-21:27 < LukasT> I will be limited to the weekend +- 2 days maximum 
27.12.2010-21:27 < boud> I guess that in the end, .nl is easiest, both travel-wise \
and visum-wise, since I can be host and do the paperwork. 27.12.2010-21:27  * LukasT \
nostalgically remembers the awesome week  27.12.2010-21:27  * Kubuntiac wants to see \
.nl 27.12.2010-21:27  * LukasT would prefer .de
27.12.2010-21:28  * LukasT likes the german food 
27.12.2010-21:28 < Kubuntiac> :)
27.12.2010-21:28 < boud> for .de, slangkamp will have to do all the visum stuff, or \
maybe we can get claudia to fix it. 27.12.2010-21:29 < LukasT> ok, sprint point done?
27.12.2010-21:30 < boud> I guess -- we want one, and it's up to me to fix a location \
and date. And it might be a bit longer than just the weekend, but with flexible \
attendance. 27.12.2010-21:30 < boud> and .nl or .de are easiest, visum wise.
27.12.2010-21:30 < billstei> what about fundum-wise?
27.12.2010-21:30 < boud> billstei: KDE e.V. funds sprint travel + accomodation
27.12.2010-21:30 < billstei> no way
27.12.2010-21:31 < Kubuntiac> We love you KDE Ev!
27.12.2010-21:31 < billstei> i could see the Motherland
27.12.2010-21:31 < boud> which doesn't mean that we shouldn't be careful and check \
the cheapest option, but last year shicmap came from Canada, no problems there. \
27.12.2010-21:31 < slangkamp> date also depends on the location, I guess blender \
institute and linux hotel could have limitations 27.12.2010-21:31 < boud> and KDE \
e.V. is very supportive of bringing people together from everywhere. 27.12.2010-21:31 \
< LukasT> Every airplane path seem to lead to amsterdam.. 27.12.2010-21:32 < \
Kubuntiac> lol 27.12.2010-21:32 < boud> LukasT: it's the third or fourth biggest air \
hub in the world... 27.12.2010-21:32 < Kubuntiac> itsthe new rome :)
27.12.2010-21:32 < Kubuntiac> as in all roads lead to...
27.12.2010-21:32 < boud> :-)
27.12.2010-21:32 < boud> Ok
27.12.2010-21:33 < boud> one big point left, as far as I can tell -- and that's \
gsoc/gci and how can we keep the people who entered the project through these \
programs active 27.12.2010-21:33 < boud> and the brainstorming
27.12.2010-21:33  * LukasT away for  minutes
27.12.2010-21:33 < LukasT> 5 minutes and I'm back
27.12.2010-21:34 < boud> I need to kiss my daughters goodnight, so afk as well
27.12.2010-21:34 < matusT> i will stay active after end of gci :)
27.12.2010-21:34 < dmitryK> boud: suggest a cool project afterwards?
27.12.2010-21:34 < Kubuntiac> I'd say keeping people involved is about a) Keeping \
them updated, b) making it easy to get started (ie marking junior jobs) and c) asking \
:) 27.12.2010-21:34 < billstei> More Mahnay
27.12.2010-21:35 < CyrilleB> LukasT: the only three places with more airtraffic in \
europe are london, paris and frankfurt ;) (I can't say for frankfurt, but the other \
two places are very expensive) 27.12.2010-21:35 < CyrilleB> Kubuntiac: b) -> well \
they don't need junior jobs anymore :) 27.12.2010-21:35 < Kubuntiac> ?
27.12.2010-21:36 < boud> billstei: while the sponsorship certainly has helped Krita a \
lot this year, I would like to make sure gsoc/gci people don't stay around just \
because of the shekels. 27.12.2010-21:37  * LukasT back
27.12.2010-21:38 < LukasT> Ok, I will show some problem I see
27.12.2010-21:38 < boud> dmitryK: but yes, we might want to spend a bit of time \
creating a good page with cool projects at the next sprint. The one we made for \
LukasT' universit was a good start, I think. 27.12.2010-21:38 < boud> LukasT: you've \
the floor 27.12.2010-21:38 < LukasT> I think we should have some rules how to select \
the developers that will be sponsored 27.12.2010-21:38 < Kubuntiac> boud: I'm up for \
helping with that 27.12.2010-21:39 < boud> Kubuntiac: ok, noted -- let's get together \
this week and convert the text in a project ideas page for krita.org 27.12.2010-21:39 \
< LukasT> E.g. I think the developer should have enough knowledge  27.12.2010-21:39 < \
Kubuntiac> boud: k 27.12.2010-21:39 < boud> LukasT: we're talking about gsoc/gci \
students here, not sponsored developers 27.12.2010-21:39 < LukasT> ah, ok different \
topic  27.12.2010-21:39 < LukasT> ?
27.12.2010-21:39 < boud> I think so
27.12.2010-21:40 < CyrilleB> yes, it is how to keep the people who got paid when they \
are not paid anymore :) 27.12.2010-21:40 < LukasT> in my case it is clear
27.12.2010-21:40 < LukasT> I take Krita as hobby also
27.12.2010-21:40 < LukasT> I'm funded for doing dirty work, fixing bugs
27.12.2010-21:41 < Kubuntiac> Emphasising the value of helping FOSS as a CV piece may \
help... 27.12.2010-21:41 < LukasT> that is not my hobby, I have enough bugs in my \
full-time job :) 27.12.2010-21:41 < boud> Kubuntiac: the weird thing is, it's \
certainly true -- I never hire anyone who hasn't got a lot of foss experience \
27.12.2010-21:41 < LukasT> yep, CV entry can help sometimes 27.12.2010-21:42 < boud> \
and the same goes for lots of other interesting jobs 27.12.2010-21:42 < Kubuntiac> \
Working on FOSS is free, industry relevant training... 27.12.2010-21:42 < LukasT> but \
really sometimes :) 27.12.2010-21:42 < Pentalis> ~~~~ Incoming wall of text ~~~~
27.12.2010-21:42 < Pentalis> My proposal to set goals:
27.12.2010-21:42 < Pentalis> INTRO --- Everyone contributing to Krita has different \
interests and skills, just like users have different expectations of what the \
software should do. So far, roadmaps have been done by developers taking into account \
user feedback. However, opening the process even more could be benefical. \
27.12.2010-21:42 < Pentalis> PROPOSAL --- Creating a Wiki or simple message board \
where users can add a feature wish, the importance (to them) of this feature wish (in \
numbers), as well as explaining why it is important/useful to them.    Yes, KDE \
Bugzilla already offers a similar infrastructure for Wishes, but it is lacking.   \
This infrastructure should automatically sum scores of relative importance to wishes, \
thus making it much easier to gauge what users want from the software. \
27.12.2010-21:42 < Pentalis> And some tasks are bound to be easier than others, there \
hobbist new developers can test their skill and make their first commits, feel happy \
that they did something meaningful to all those people wanting the feature, and get \
their developer account if they want to stay.   27.12.2010-21:42 < Pentalis> FINAL \
NOTE --- This is only a proposal to organize goals, I'm sure it'll help keeping \
contributors motivated or may make bringing contributors a bit easier, but I still am \
not sure how to make them stay. 27.12.2010-21:42  * Pentalis hides from the lynching
27.12.2010-21:42 < Kubuntiac> slogan: "Change the world. Get a great job. Free \
training. Ask me how!" :) 27.12.2010-21:43 < boud> Pentalis: ok... this sounds like \
the kde brainstorm forum, but focussed on Krita 27.12.2010-21:43 < boud> Pentalis: \
it's a good idea -- maybe we can create a new forum for it and advertise it a bit? \
27.12.2010-21:43 < CyrilleB> (or use kde brainstorm :) ) 27.12.2010-21:44 < \
Kubuntiac> It really *does* sound like bugs.kde.org to me... they add up the votes, \
too :) I just wish brainstorm forum had separation of idea fro implementation like \
ubuntu brainstorm 27.12.2010-21:44 < Pentalis> boud CyrilleB: (attempt at mixing \
feedback) use kde brainstorm with a forum specific to Krita and advertise it with a \
BIG banner in krita.org? 27.12.2010-21:45  * Pentalis checks kde brainstorm which he \
didn't even know of its existance 27.12.2010-21:45 < billstei> and kde brainstorm \
adds up votes?  like a poll? 27.12.2010-21:45 < boud> I never manage to look at the \
wishes in bugzilla -- there's just too much of it, and for wishes, a forum might work \
better 27.12.2010-21:45 < Kubuntiac> Without separation of idea / implementation you \
get vague but huge ideas with a zillion votes like "Make Krita perfect! (10,0000 \
votes)" 27.12.2010-21:45 < CyrilleB> Pentalis: kde brainstorm has tags, no need for \
subforum 27.12.2010-21:45 < Kubuntiac> billstei: Yes, you can see votes added on the \
idea 27.12.2010-21:46 < Kubuntiac> You don't see all ideas ranked by vote though (I \
think)  27.12.2010-21:46 < CyrilleB> here are all the brainstorms for krita \
http://forum.kde.org/search.php?tags=krita&sr=topics 27.12.2010-21:46 < Pentalis> The \
most important feature is the auto-talling of votes / relative importance and \
automatic building of a ranking of most popular feature requests; all those \
automatizable tasks should be done by a computer such that human beings can rip the \
benefits. 27.12.2010-21:46 < Kubuntiac> Does anyone ever look at the Krita \
brainstorms? 27.12.2010-21:46 < dmitryK> Kubuntiac: erm... =)
27.12.2010-21:46 < boud> Kubuntiac: well...
27.12.2010-21:47 < Pentalis> Kubuntiac: where, when?
27.12.2010-21:47 < boud> but we're moving away from the topic a bit
27.12.2010-21:47 < CyrilleB> :)
27.12.2010-21:47 < Pentalis> Yeah, it was a bit of an idea to keep full newbies \
motivated and finding what they need faster, instead of having to ask. \
27.12.2010-21:47 < Kubuntiac> I'm good at that (along with billstei :) \
27.12.2010-21:47 < slangkamp> I guess a "Make a photoshop clone" would get 10000 \
votes ;) 27.12.2010-21:47 < Pentalis> I can bring this discussion to the mailing list \
---->   moving topic back to where it was. 27.12.2010-21:48 < boud> so, we've got two \
or three things: 27.12.2010-21:48 < boud> * cool projects page (kubuntiac + boud)
27.12.2010-21:48 < boud> * advertise brainstorm (pentalis + boud)
27.12.2010-21:49 < boud> * really make clear to people we mentor that we expect \
everyone to be around after the project ends 27.12.2010-21:49 < boud> anything else?
27.12.2010-21:49 < Kubuntiac> You mean a new brainstorm or brainstorm on \
forum.kde.org? 27.12.2010-21:49 < billstei> * clone boud (boud)
27.12.2010-21:49 < boud> yeah
27.12.2010-21:49 < boud> my scalability is a bit of a problem, I'm afraid
27.12.2010-21:50 < Kubuntiac> we'll see what a bunch of slovakian beer does to that \
:) 27.12.2010-21:50 < boud> :-)
27.12.2010-21:51 < boud> As a last point for this meeting, I'm really interested if \
anyone here has something like "I really wanna do X in 2011" or "I really wanna see X \
in 2011" 27.12.2010-21:52 < Kubuntiac> Other than World Domination™...
27.12.2010-21:52 < matusT> i am doing and i wana spread OpenCL in krita
27.12.2010-21:52 < Kubuntiac> I'd like to get more video of Krita out on the \
intertubes 27.12.2010-21:52 < billstei> i want to see the Motherland
27.12.2010-21:52 < LukasT> I want to stay on the brush engines topic in Krita and \
doing crazy stuff with that 27.12.2010-21:53 < Kubuntiac> and get news out into the \
artist community as well as the FOSS communitiy 27.12.2010-21:53 < LukasT> and of \
course I want to work as parttime developer for Krita in year 2011 27.12.2010-21:53 < \
CyrilleB> I want to do too many things :) 27.12.2010-21:53 < boud> CyrilleB: :-)
27.12.2010-21:54 < boud> right now, what I really want is to fix the resizing \
dockers, but I know that that's a quixotic quest.  27.12.2010-21:54 < boud> and fix \
the psd support... But I need long train journeys for that. 27.12.2010-21:54 < \
Kubuntiac> I also have some tentative ideas about a more community focused krita.org. \
Been playing around with Elgg (FOSS social network). It's nice! 27.12.2010-21:55 < \
boud> Kubuntiac: bring it on! 27.12.2010-21:55 < slangkamp> most of the things I \
wanted to implement for the next version are almost done ;) 27.12.2010-21:55 < \
Kubuntiac> :) 27.12.2010-21:55 < Kubuntiac> slangkamp: Someone's been turning up the \
awesome :) 27.12.2010-21:56 < boud> and there's still the integrated preset editor -- \
there are a number of things david revoy and peter sikking hinted about that are \
still to do. 27.12.2010-21:56 < billstei> sikking knows who we are?
27.12.2010-21:56 < boud> billstei: yes, he was with us last sprint
27.12.2010-21:57 < billstei> does he say nice things or does he make us feel bad?
27.12.2010-21:57 < boud> he helped us formulate the mission statement, among other \
things 27.12.2010-21:57 < boud> let's say that he makes us think :-)
27.12.2010-21:58 < dmitryK> btw, about the things, that'll help newbies to work more \
prolific -- a good UML (at least) for our code :( 27.12.2010-21:58 < boud> no gci \
student picked up on that... 27.12.2010-21:59 < billstei> code comments are evil  No \
UML! 27.12.2010-22:00 < dmitryK> boud: when i were 14 i didn't know anything about \
UML (though i did some coding in VB and c++)  =) 27.12.2010-22:00 < Pentalis> I'm \
guilty of that, I never put up the finished draft for that in GCI.  But I couldn't \
have tutored that and the brush campaign at the same time so I don't regret it much. \
27.12.2010-22:00 < boud> dmitryK: when I was 14, UML didn't exist yet! \
27.12.2010-22:00 < dmitryK> billstei: "code comments are evil" -- yes, but UML != \
"code comments" 27.12.2010-22:00 < matusT> cannot be UML just generated from code?
27.12.2010-22:00  * LukasT have to go
27.12.2010-22:01  * LukasT thanks for a nice time 
27.12.2010-22:01 -!- heroid [~heroid@178.175.69.76] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 \
seconds] 27.12.2010-22:01 < Pentalis> exactly at 22:00  be well LukasT
27.12.2010-22:01 < Kubuntiac> Later LukasT!
27.12.2010-22:01 < boud> matusT: it can -- but then it won't be too clear
27.12.2010-22:01 < boud> by LukasT 
27.12.2010-22:01 < slangkamp> bye LukasT
27.12.2010-22:01 < boud> bye, I mean
27.12.2010-22:01 < dmitryK> LukasT: see you!
27.12.2010-22:01 < sgrosso> bye Lukas
27.12.2010-22:01 < boud> matusT: umbrello can help out at the beginning, but onl for \
class diagrams, while it's the interaction diagrams that are most important \
27.12.2010-22:02 < matusT> boud: and what can do interaction diagrams? \
27.12.2010-22:02 < dmitryK> boud, matusT: and UML should describe only main traits of \
the systems, i guess 27.12.2010-22:03 < dmitryK> matusT: how the classes iteract with \
each other 27.12.2010-22:03 < Pentalis> Oh, forgot to say what I planned for 2011... \
Using Krita to make heaps of art, that's pretty much my second biggest priority for \
the year in general. 27.12.2010-22:03 -!- LukasT \
[~LukasT@bband-dyn163.95-103-208.t-com.sk] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 27.12.2010-22:04 \
< Kubuntiac> Pentalis: Nice! Yeah, I want to do more art this year, too :) \
27.12.2010-22:04 < dmitryK> boud: i guess, for the beginning, we just need to show \
classes, associations and aggregations 27.12.2010-22:04 < matusT> dmitryK: i was not \
asking what is 27.12.2010-22:04 < matusT> dmitryK: boud sayd umbrello can help only \
with class diagrams, so what other software can make/craete interaction diagrams? \
27.12.2010-22:04 < CyrilleB> umbrello has support for interaction diagrams \
27.12.2010-22:05 < slangkamp> boud: did you take notes so far? 27.12.2010-22:05 < \
dmitryK> matusT: ah, the developer, that is who can do that, i guess ;) \
27.12.2010-22:05 < dmitryK> CyrilleB: autogeneration? 27.12.2010-22:05 < boud> \
slangkamp: yes, a few 27.12.2010-22:06 < boud> slangkamp: I'll fix the notes up \
tomorrow when I'm in the hospital, waiting for irina to be taken care of. \
27.12.2010-22:06 < CyrilleB> dmitryK: no 27.12.2010-22:06 < dmitryK> matusT, \
CyrilleB: btw, all the previous times i tried to auto-generate UML form Krita's code \
-- it hung up ;P 27.12.2010-22:06 < CyrilleB> but then, there is no FOSS application \
that support generation 27.12.2010-22:07 < Kubuntiac> :'(
27.12.2010-22:07 < dmitryK> CyrilleB: i guess this is due to some KRITA_EXPORT \
stuff... just a guess.. 27.12.2010-22:07 < Kubuntiac> Hey, do we have a release date \
for 2.3? 27.12.2010-22:08 < CyrilleB> wednesday
27.12.2010-22:08 < Kubuntiac> eep! I better get moving with my video then...
27.12.2010-22:08 < boud> tomorrow night... I'll finish the 2.3 koffice changelog. \
Wednesday morning I will have to get irina from the hospital, but I still might be \
able to do a krita.org release article. 27.12.2010-22:08 < Kubuntiac> If anyone can \
think of any new features of v2.3 I should cover, I'd love to hear them \
27.12.2010-22:09 < dmitryK> Kubuntiac: canvas rotation? =) 27.12.2010-22:09 < boud> \
brushes, speed, canvas rotation, speed, masks, speed, presets, color docker, speed, \
transform tool 27.12.2010-22:09 < slangkamp> and staaaaaabbbbbiliityyyyy
27.12.2010-22:10 < boud> we really need to release more often, since there's too much \
in 2.3 to take in 27.12.2010-22:10 < boud> slangkamp: right you are! 
27.12.2010-22:10  * Kubuntiac tries to figure out how to record Krita *not* \
crashing.... 27.12.2010-22:10 < boud> oh-oh
27.12.2010-22:10 < dmitryK> ok, i have to go now, good night!
27.12.2010-22:10 < boud> I only know of one crash I reproduce, and that's an assert, \
so hopefully not a crash in release mode 27.12.2010-22:10 < Kubuntiac> later dmitryK!
27.12.2010-22:10 < boud> dmitryK: bye!
27.12.2010-22:10 -!- dmitryK [~dmitryK@94.232.66.212] has quit [Remote host closed \
the connection] 27.12.2010-22:11 < Kubuntiac> boud: By that, I didn't mean Krita is \
rashing, I mean that recording a video of nothing happening is, well, boring :) \
27.12.2010-22:11 < Kubuntiac> rashing == crashing 27.12.2010-22:12 < slangkamp> we \
haven't decided what to sponsor next year yet 27.12.2010-22:13 < boud> slangkamp: \
that's true 27.12.2010-22:13 < Pentalis> I have a wall of text written with respect \
to the mixing engine in case the topic needs to be discussed. 27.12.2010-22:13 < \
boud> slangkamp: except that we have decided not to sponsor: the manual and the \
windows installer 27.12.2010-22:13 < Kubuntiac> boud: If it helps for your changelog: \
http://community.kde.org/Krita/V2.3UserFacingFeatures 27.12.2010-22:13 < boud> \
Kubuntiac: sure, thanks! 27.12.2010-22:14 < boud> slangkamp: there are two or three \
things sgrosso has offered sponsorship for: 27.12.2010-22:14 < boud> * fixing the \
crop tool 27.12.2010-22:14 < boud> * mix brush
27.12.2010-22:14 < boud> * fixing some remaining nasty bugs
27.12.2010-22:14  * Kubuntiac bows before sgrosso
27.12.2010-22:14 < boud> we've got a clear end date for that, as well as a clear \
end-of-sponsorship -- and that's great 27.12.2010-22:14 < boud> we owe sgrosso a lot!
27.12.2010-22:14 < sgrosso> yes, I would like to sponsor them :-)
27.12.2010-22:15 < boud> after that, we really need to engage the community again
27.12.2010-22:15 < CyrilleB> I thought we had decided to sponsor for blender's need
27.12.2010-22:15 < boud> that's a plan -- but I need to discuss that with Ton first. \
It's on my todo. 27.12.2010-22:16 < boud> sgrosso: :-)
27.12.2010-22:17 < CyrilleB> meaning we can't really take a decision
27.12.2010-22:17 < boud> CyrilleB: right
27.12.2010-22:17 < slangkamp> ok
27.12.2010-22:18 -!- sinozzuke [~sinozzuke@167.204.218.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has \
quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 27.12.2010-22:18 -!- sinozzuke \
[~sinozzuke@167.204.218.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #krita 27.12.2010-22:19 < \
Kubuntiac> I think engaging the community comes down to publicity (so they know we \
exist) and ease (making it easy to install and use). Other than windows, packages are \
vital imho as most artists will *never* compile and the versions in most repo's are \
hideously old. In other words OBS FTW :) 27.12.2010-22:20  * Kubuntiac really should \
get back to investigating the obs 27.12.2010-22:21 < slangkamp> yeah many users use \
version that are really really old 27.12.2010-22:21 < billstei> so, how difficult \
would it be to break KDE dependency and be QT-only ? 27.12.2010-22:22 < boud> about \
six months of work, I think. 27.12.2010-22:22 < Pentalis> There's a chain of \
dependencies. Krita -> KOffice -> KDE -> Qt. 27.12.2010-22:22 < Kubuntiac> Krita in \
next Ubuntu is currently 2.2.91... and probably will still be when 2.4 comes out... \
:/ 27.12.2010-22:22 < boud> and we'd separate ourselves from the KDE community, and \
that's a big price to pay as well. 27.12.2010-22:23 < Kubuntiac> aye
27.12.2010-22:23 < billstei> and then I wouldn't get to see the Motherland
27.12.2010-22:24 < billstei> wait, are we sprinting in Germany or the Lands of \
Nether? 27.12.2010-22:24 < boud> not sure yet
27.12.2010-22:24 < boud> I'm going approach:
27.12.2010-22:24 < boud> * troubalex about the essen linux hotel
27.12.2010-22:24 < boud> * ton about the blender institute
27.12.2010-22:24 < boud> * bcoppens about his university (in belgium)
27.12.2010-22:25 < Kubuntiac> Mmmmm... Belgium chocolate :)
27.12.2010-22:25 < boud> though either netherlands or germany are most likely, \
because we've got residents there who can handle the visum needs 27.12.2010-22:25 -!- \
thorwil [~thorwil@p4FFB6A08.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the \
connection] 27.12.2010-22:25 < matusT> problems with kde-dependancy could be solved \
if someone work on that idea of merging kde and qt libraries... 27.12.2010-22:25 < \
boud> and, of course, nobody stops you to make a tour of europe in ten days after the \
sprint is over! 27.12.2010-22:25 < boud> matusT: the libraries aren't even the \
biggest problem 27.12.2010-22:26 < boud> matusT: the kde libs are only a couple of \
megs -- the big issue is the various daemons that need to be running and be of the \
right version and all that 27.12.2010-22:26 < Kubuntiac> matusT: The politics needed \
for that to happen would be...amazingly unlikely imo 27.12.2010-22:26 < Kubuntiac> \
not that I'm super informed 27.12.2010-22:27 < billstei> I only wondered because the \
WIndows installer would probably be easier for QT-only 27.12.2010-22:27 < boud> \
billstei: yes, it would be easier 27.12.2010-22:28 < boud> though we use so many \
other 3rd party libraries, that it's still not exactly easy :-) 27.12.2010-22:28 < \
billstei> ok right 27.12.2010-22:28 < boud> I need to go now as well -- see y'all
27.12.2010-22:29 < billstei> Linux will achieve Total World Domination in 2011 anyway
27.12.2010-22:29 < Kubuntiac> night boud!
27.12.2010-22:29 < Kubuntiac> billstei: This is the year... I can feel it! :)
27.12.2010-22:29 < matusT> billstei: i hope not
27.12.2010-22:30 < billstei> 2012 ?
27.12.2010-22:30 < Kubuntiac> It'll probably just be that Linux is running Google's \
servers when they pull it off... :/ 27.12.2010-22:30 < Kubuntiac> I for one welcome \
our new cloud-based overlords :) 27.12.2010-22:31 < slangkamp> night boud
27.12.2010-22:31 < sgrosso> good night boud :-)
27.12.2010-22:32 < Kubuntiac> k, I'm off too. bbl
27.12.2010-22:32 < slangkamp> night Kubuntiac
27.12.2010-22:34 < billstei> so if I attend the sprint what do I have do?
27.12.2010-22:34 < billstei> solve World Peace
27.12.2010-22:34 < matusT> what i need to do if i want attend sprint? :)
27.12.2010-22:36 < matusT> ok bye 
27.12.2010-22:37 -!- matusT [5f69e047@gateway/web/freenode/ip.95.105.224.71] has quit \
[Quit: Page closed] 27.12.2010-22:38 -!- n-pigeon \
[~przemo@host166.kopernika.miedzyrzecz.com.pl] has joined #krita 27.12.2010-22:39 < \
n-pigeon> hi evbd 27.12.2010-22:40 < slangkamp> Hi n-pigeon
27.12.2010-22:40 < slangkamp> billstei: no, just attend :)
27.12.2010-22:41 < billstei> don't i have to write code like a crazy-man?
27.12.2010-22:43 -!- heroid [~heroid@178.175.75.17] has joined #krita
27.12.2010-22:44  * billstei forces himself to go build Yet Another Windows Machine
27.12.2010-22:44 < verbalshadow> billstei: don't do it , it not worth it
27.12.2010-22:44 < verbalshadow> it is 
27.12.2010-22:45 < billstei> with Vista.  It's like twisting the knife
27.12.2010-22:46 -!- mpeg [~quassel@bru67-1-82-227-48-153.fbx.proxad.net] has joined \
#krita 27.12.2010-22:47 -!- plassy [~quassel@ip-2-201-163-79.web.vodafone.de] has \
quit [Remote host closed the connection] 27.12.2010-22:57 < sgrosso> I have to go as \
well, good night everyone :-) 27.12.2010-22:57 < Pentalis> Good night sgrosso!
27.12.2010-22:58 < n-pigeon> cya
27.12.2010-22:58 < sgrosso> Good night everyone :-)



_______________________________________________
kimageshop mailing list
kimageshop@kde.org
https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kimageshop


[prev in list] [next in list] [prev in thread] [next in thread]