From kde-kimageshop Mon Jan 03 12:55:11 2011 From: Boudewijn Rempt Date: Mon, 03 Jan 2011 12:55:11 +0000 To: kde-kimageshop Subject: Log + Report of: IRC MEETING Monday 20:00 - 22:00 CET Message-Id: <201101031355.11721.boud () valdyas ! org> X-MARC-Message: https://marc.info/?l=kde-kimageshop&m=129406036720624 MIME-Version: 1 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="--Boundary-00=_vccIN3oLW90tTYN" --Boundary-00=_vccIN3oLW90tTYN Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Thursday 30 December 2010, Adam C. wrote: > On Thu, 30 Dec 2010 09:40:03 +0100, Boudewijn Rempt > wrote: > > > On Thursday 30 December 2010, Adam C. wrote: > > > >> sorry that i couldn't attend. are there any logs or something? > > I'm working on a log + report, but got sidetracked a bit by the release > > and caring for Irina. > > > > ok, all the best for irina :) It was a fun meeting. I've attached the log. These are the basic resolutions: Sponsored development: * We still have ~2400 euros left (though I'm behind on my administration) * Silvio will finish his sponsorship in 2011. He would like Dmitry to fix the crop tool (see other mail in this thread), Lukas to focus on bad bugs and Pentalis to write a really good mixing brush. * For 2011, we'll try to setup a fund-raiser to have one Krita developer work together with the Blender people on issues they have during their next project. Boud will contact Ton asap. There might be movement on the topic of windows installers for Calligra, so it is not likely that we'll have to spend money on that. LGM: Lukas, Animtim, Billstei and Kubuntiac want to go to LGM. Lukas will present Krita, Animtim will do a workshop. I need an overview of everyone's travel and accomodation costs ASAP so I can send a proposal to the KDE e.V. Sprint: Boud will contact ingwa/troubalex to ask how to get the Linux Hotel for the Krita sprint. I'll do that this week. Then we can set a date and ask Claudia to help with the necessary visums. Website: Kubuntiac and boud will review the website. We'll create a cool projects for newcomers page. I also want a prominent features page. Manual: Not much is going to happen there for now. I'm still working on it, but my scalability is getting worse and worse, it seems. -- Boudewijn Rempt | http://www.valdyas.org, http://www.krita.org --Boundary-00=_vccIN3oLW90tTYN Content-Type: text/x-log; charset="UTF-8"; name="krita_meeting.log" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="krita_meeting.log" 27.12.2010-20:01 < slangkamp> meeting here or in another channel? 27.12.2010-20:01 < sgrosso> hi everyone, I am Silvio Grosso :-) 27.12.2010-20:01 < boud> meeting here 27.12.2010-20:01 < boud> I'm preparing the introduction right now 27.12.2010-20:02 < Pentalis> Hi! 27.12.2010-20:02 < sgrosso> Hi Pentalis :-) 27.12.2010-20:02 < boud> if we have an incursion of users or new people who= want to contribute, please, let's wait with the beginner's questions until= after the meeting 27.12.2010-20:02 < plassy> slangkamp: hmm... yes... that could be right... = but german wouldn't be the problem here :P ... but of course i don't know h= ow it would look in japanese or hindu 27.12.2010-20:04 < boud> ok... 27.12.2010-20:04 < boud> please: Let's start the Krita-in-2010 and what'll = we do in 2011 meeting. 27.12.2010-20:04 < boud> we;re still missing dmitry, though 27.12.2010-20:04 < LukasT> hello 27.12.2010-20:04 < LukasT> I made it "=C3=A9 27.12.2010-20:04 < boud> and he was available around now, according to the= doodle! 27.12.2010-20:05 < boud> LukasT: great! 27.12.2010-20:05 < boud> you rock! 27.12.2010-20:05 < boud> I'd like to start with a bit of an introduction --= and then we can start discussing how we can make 2011 even better than 2010 27.12.2010-20:06 < boud> We did a great job this year! Krita 2.3 really is = ready to be used by real artists. Thanks to everybody. 27.12.2010-20:06 < LukasT> sgrosso: hi, nice to meet you on-line :) 27.12.2010-20:06 < sgrosso> Hi Lukas ;-) 27.12.2010-20:06 * LukasT see boud doing psssst=20 27.12.2010-20:06 < boud> :-) 27.12.2010-20:06 < boud> ok... 27.12.2010-20:07 < boud> Reviewing the past year: I think we really did a g= reat job. We've still got ~2400 euros in cash, but I still owe dmitry for d= ecember 27.12.2010-20:07 < boud> I've been sick... 27.12.2010-20:08 < boud> So we've got two people working paid part-time on = krita: Lukas and Dmitry 27.12.2010-20:08 < boud> Silvio, Pentalis and I did discuss sponsorship for= Pentalis, for the creation of a mixing brush up to and above gimp-paint st= andards -- this seems an important feature for the next release, to seduce = more artists 27.12.2010-20:08 -!- dmitryK [~dmitryK@94.232.66.212] has joined #krita 27.12.2010-20:08 < boud> hi dmitryK=20 27.12.2010-20:09 < boud> dmitryK: you might want to take me up on my offer = of a shell account on valdyas.org, so you have access to the backlog :P 27.12.2010-20:09 < CyrilleB> :) 27.12.2010-20:09 < LukasT> dmitryK: http://pastebin.ca/2030720 27.12.2010-20:09 < boud> Krita 2.3 is about to be released, with just one k= nown, reproducible crash bug (mpeg... !!!) 27.12.2010-20:09 < dmitryK> boud: when the meeting starts? I need to have a= dinner 27.12.2010-20:09 < LukasT> dmitryK: now 27.12.2010-20:10 < boud> it started 9 minutes ago 27.12.2010-20:10 < boud> but I don't mind if you eat and attend at the same= time. 27.12.2010-20:10 < boud> you're even allowed to speak with your mouth full = of food! 27.12.2010-20:10 < Pentalis> Also known as eattending 27.12.2010-20:11 < LukasT> boud: more will follow about the introduction? 27.12.2010-20:12 < Kubuntiac> Pentalis: Groan! lol 27.12.2010-20:12 < boud> in 2010, we've had a great Krita sprint, introduce= d lots of people to hacking on Krita and -- I think -- finally got Krita ou= t of the apology state! 27.12.2010-20:12 < Kubuntiac> \o/ 27.12.2010-20:12 < slangkamp> yay 27.12.2010-20:13 < boud> so... feel free to give your input about 2010, goo= d and bad for now, then let's start making plans for 2011 27.12.2010-20:13 < LukasT> finally we can call it software :) 27.12.2010-20:13 < LukasT> Let me start 27.12.2010-20:14 < boud> sure, go ahead! 27.12.2010-20:14 < LukasT> I think this year for Krita was really great 27.12.2010-20:14 < slangkamp> it was! 27.12.2010-20:14 < LukasT> The two sponsored part-time developers and a lot= of Google Summer Of Code slots was very moving thing in the community I th= ink 27.12.2010-20:15 < Kubuntiac> It made lots of good news which I think raise= d community interest 27.12.2010-20:15 < Kubuntiac> All the stuff you guys did I mean 27.12.2010-20:15 < LukasT> Also there are really commited contributors of c= ode, especially slangkamp and CyrilleB who did a lot of work in their spare= time 27.12.2010-20:15 < LukasT> boud did great job with LWiK's and he started th= e manual 27.12.2010-20:16 < LukasT> and I think we managed to create good atmosphere= where we mix sponsored work and hobby work without any conflicts 27.12.2010-20:17 < boud> there have been remarkably few fights in krita -- = especially considering the size of our community and the level of activity. 27.12.2010-20:17 < boud> that's great 27.12.2010-20:17 < LukasT> I don't remember any fight, or was it? 27.12.2010-20:17 < slangkamp> me neither :) 27.12.2010-20:17 < boud> there was a big discussion some time ago without a= ny resolution, so I had to call maintainer rights and make a decision 27.12.2010-20:18 < boud> which promptly meant everyone united and did what = I hadn't decided -- but that was great :-) 27.12.2010-20:18 < boud> I don;t really remember the topic, though 27.12.2010-20:18 < Kubuntiac> lol 27.12.2010-20:19 < boud> For me, this year was shear madness, but that was = mainly because of my new job. Being a cubible-hole hacker tended to leave m= e plenty of spare time for Krita 27.12.2010-20:19 < LukasT> ok, I think I'm done :) 27.12.2010-20:19 < boud> working in my own company was different, especiall= y since that work focussed aronud koffice -- still, I did make a fair numbe= r of commits 27.12.2010-20:20 < slangkamp> ok, now next year? 27.12.2010-20:20 < boud> as said above, we managed to finally "fix" krita a= nd make it a real application people can depend on. 27.12.2010-20:20 < boud> slangkamp: for next year... 27.12.2010-20:20 < boud> (unless other people want to chip in with a bit of= retrospective...) 27.12.2010-20:21 < Kubuntiac> I had fun. Thats about it for me. :) 27.12.2010-20:22 < boud> anyone else who wants to look back a bit? 27.12.2010-20:22 < Pentalis> I only have a small thing to say, but I think = it's important 27.12.2010-20:22 -!- mattho [5f69e047@gateway/web/freenode/ip.95.105.224.71= ] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 27.12.2010-20:22 -!- matusT [5f69e047@gateway/web/freenode/ip.95.105.224.71= ] has joined #krita 27.12.2010-20:22 < boud> shoot! 27.12.2010-20:22 < LukasT> Let me note that we should be thankful to KDE fo= r sponsoring our sprints, both KOffice sprints per year and Krita sprint --= we manage to meet sometimes 3 times a year :) 27.12.2010-20:22 < Kubuntiac> aye 27.12.2010-20:23 < boud> Pentalis has the floor 27.12.2010-20:23 < Pentalis> I always wanted to participate of an open sour= ce project, but I never found a community welcoming enough, and enough self= =2Ddiscipline, or enough knowledge, to get anything done. When I participat= ed for GSoC for Krita this year I could find it all. 27.12.2010-20:23 < Pentalis> I think this community has everything needed t= o attract people of all corners of the talent slider, let's exploit that :> 27.12.2010-20:23 < Pentalis> That's all. 27.12.2010-20:24 < boud> Pfui to the other projects you approached -- krita= is the richer for your presence! 27.12.2010-20:24 -!- sgrosso [~chatzilla@host152-218-dynamic.41-79-r.retail= =2Etelecomitalia.it] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 27.12.2010-20:24 -!- sgrosso [~chatzilla@host152-218-dynamic.41-79-r.retail= =2Etelecomitalia.it] has joined #krita 27.12.2010-20:24 < boud> Anyone else about 2010? 27.12.2010-20:24 < slangkamp> I note that we also have a new record number = of people in this channel :) 27.12.2010-20:24 < boud> :-) 27.12.2010-20:25 < LukasT> CIA is listing and some Assagne is around, hm... 27.12.2010-20:25 < boud> :P 27.12.2010-20:25 < LukasT> Dear Children, Santa is Mom and Dad. Merry Chris= tmas, Wikileaks 27.12.2010-20:25 < boud> okay -- about next year 27.12.2010-20:25 * dmitryK is reading backlog... hum.. hum.. 27.12.2010-20:25 < Kubuntiac> Agreed. I think the *friendliness* of the Kri= ta community is unusually high and one of the things that made me stick aro= und (I leave it to you all to decide if thaat's a good thing ;P) 27.12.2010-20:26 < boud> Kubuntiac: without you we wouldn't have a website = =2D but I think there might be some work on the website soonish... 27.12.2010-20:26 < Kubuntiac> ...! 27.12.2010-20:26 < boud> dmitryK: anything you want to add about 2010? 27.12.2010-20:26 < Kubuntiac> Ready and willing. 27.12.2010-20:28 < dmitryK> erm... 1) stress tests; 2) optimization of mask= generation with complex maths; 3) ROI for the scheduler; 4) and new multit= hreaded system for the tools (discussed earlier) 27.12.2010-20:28 < dmitryK> but 4) is really too big, it worth the whole so= c ;) 27.12.2010-20:28 < boud> dmitryK: if you want to achieve that in 2010, you'= ve got some work to do! 27.12.2010-20:29 < LukasT> :) 27.12.2010-20:29 < LukasT> dmitryK: 3 days and we count it, go! 27.12.2010-20:29 < Kubuntiac> Bah. A whole 70 hours! Easy! 27.12.2010-20:30 < slangkamp> so 2011 now? 27.12.2010-20:30 < boud> yeah 27.12.2010-20:30 < boud> couple of points: 27.12.2010-20:30 < boud> Let me first enumerate them, then we can add other= points and discuss.... 27.12.2010-20:30 < boud> fundraising and with which goal 27.12.2010-20:30 < boud> whither the manual 27.12.2010-20:31 < boud> growing the community and keeping people coding ou= tside gsoc/gci 27.12.2010-20:31 < boud> the 2011 krita sprint 27.12.2010-20:31 < boud> lgm attendance (may 10-13) 27.12.2010-20:31 < boud> my scalability 27.12.2010-20:31 < boud> goals for krita as an application 27.12.2010-20:31 < boud> any other points? 27.12.2010-20:31 < boud> (no particular order implied in my list...) 27.12.2010-20:32 < Pentalis> You mean things for 2011?, Krita Windows clien= t. 27.12.2010-20:32 < Kubuntiac> packaging? (OBS, windows etc?) may be under "= growing the community" 27.12.2010-20:32 < LukasT> I would add brainstorm the projects 27.12.2010-20:32 < boud> windows is a good point to put separately. I have = some insider info on that, though. 27.12.2010-20:32 < LukasT> just titles and then we can note them=20 27.12.2010-20:32 < Kubuntiac> ! 27.12.2010-20:33 < boud> LukasT: sure 27.12.2010-20:33 < boud> we've got dmitry's goals, right -- and that means = dmitry wants to go for a gsoc again, if I understand him correctly 27.12.2010-20:35 < LukasT> I had idea to put one krita developer for some f= ixed time frame into Blender's project 27.12.2010-20:35 < boud> this is what I have now: 27.12.2010-20:35 < boud> http://pastebin.com/UsFeDa7B 27.12.2010-20:35 < boud> LukasT: can you explain a bit more about that? 27.12.2010-20:35 < LukasT> and that would need fund raising so that he can = stay with the team 27.12.2010-20:36 < LukasT> Blender is going to do some new project again --= open source movie. And they usually have requirements and they have blende= r coders around who code what they need. 27.12.2010-20:37 < LukasT> I think it would take a lot of attention to Krit= a if we would offer Krita developer for few weeks to work with the team so = that they can use Krita 27.12.2010-20:37 < LukasT> he would solve the issues they have, fix bugs et= c. 27.12.2010-20:37 < LukasT> but it is just crazy idea , what do you think? :) 27.12.2010-20:38 < boud> it's a good idea -- though I see one drawback 27.12.2010-20:38 < matusT> very good idea :) 27.12.2010-20:38 < boud> it would mean giving Ton direct influence on what = goes into Krita -- but that might be ok 27.12.2010-20:38 < LukasT> branch 27.12.2010-20:38 < LukasT> krita-blender 27.12.2010-20:38 < LukasT> and we can merge what we want 27.12.2010-20:38 < LukasT> that's how they do it with blender 27.12.2010-20:38 < LukasT> not everything is going into the master 27.12.2010-20:39 < boud> it could work very well 27.12.2010-20:39 < dmitryK> LukasT: it would be better if that developer ha= d a direct access to the blender team (i mean living in the same country/ci= ty/house... ) 27.12.2010-20:39 < LukasT> they have some render branch if I remember corre= ctly 27.12.2010-20:39 < slangkamp> first we have to get their requirements 27.12.2010-20:39 < boud> if it's for a month, we can figure out something 27.12.2010-20:39 < slangkamp> that was the problem last year 27.12.2010-20:39 < LukasT> dmitryK: yep, here comes the fundraising to allo= w that 27.12.2010-20:39 < LukasT> slangkamp: I agree 27.12.2010-20:39 < Kubuntiac> I think its a great idea. We can always have = a blender branch and cherry pick. Durian movie was made with an "unofficial= " build of Blender that then cherry picked 27.12.2010-20:39 < boud> and it needs coordination with the blender team of= course, but I can see it work out 27.12.2010-20:40 < LukasT> only problem I see is, who is going to be the de= veloper :) I can't though I wish I could,I'm working full-time :( 27.12.2010-20:40 < Kubuntiac> me! me! me!... actually probably not a good i= dea... 27.12.2010-20:40 < billstei> what is the time-frame for the next Blender pr= oject/movie? 27.12.2010-20:40 < boud> yeah, that's an issue. But we first need to figure= out the timeframe 27.12.2010-20:41 < LukasT> I think it is not set yet 27.12.2010-20:41 < boud> billstei: is right -- I'm not sure about when they= start, but I can find out 27.12.2010-20:41 < Kubuntiac> Ton has said "after blender final is out" 27.12.2010-20:41 < LukasT> Ton mentioned something in the keynote=20 27.12.2010-20:41 < slangkamp> timeframe isn't set from what I saw in the vi= deo form blender conference 27.12.2010-20:41 < LukasT> Kubuntiac: but he was kidding then :) 27.12.2010-20:41 < Kubuntiac> He's been very vague but hinted probably late= r this year 27.12.2010-20:41 < LukasT> yes, somewhere in the end of the may 2011 or som= ething they will start 27.12.2010-20:42 < boud> so... plenty of time to figure something out and s= tart a campaign. Action point for me, ask Ton about this plan? 27.12.2010-20:42 < slangkamp> the good thing if we say that we are working = on features for blender people we can get help from the much bigger blender= community 27.12.2010-20:42 < billstei> what kinds of changes will the Blender ppl be = looking for? usability or features? 27.12.2010-20:42 < LukasT> performance 27.12.2010-20:42 < LukasT> stability 27.12.2010-20:43 < boud> and features... usability I doubt... 27.12.2010-20:43 < Kubuntiac> openexr working really well 27.12.2010-20:43 < boud> but we had lots of input this year already 27.12.2010-20:43 < Kubuntiac> (Which it may be already, I dont know) 27.12.2010-20:43 < slangkamp> yeah ton doesn't care much about usuability 27.12.2010-20:43 < LukasT> :D 27.12.2010-20:43 < boud> with openexr in krita being "correct" but not comp= atible with the way blender messed openexr up. 27.12.2010-20:44 < boud> but we can discuss that with ton 27.12.2010-20:44 < billstei> ton =3D ? 27.12.2010-20:44 < Kubuntiac> Lead dev of blender 27.12.2010-20:44 < slangkamp> ton roosendaal 27.12.2010-20:44 < boud> ton roosendaal, the blender benevolent dictator fo= r life 27.12.2010-20:44 < billstei> ok 27.12.2010-20:44 < Spell> dictator, huh? 27.12.2010-20:45 < billstei> I would also like to hear the needs of ppl lik= e David Revoy 27.12.2010-20:45 < boud> we still have an offer for getting 2.3 release pub= licity for krita through the blender blog -- and I still need to write the = text. 27.12.2010-20:45 -!- sinozzuke [~sinozzuke@167.204.218.87.dynamic.jazztel.e= s] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 27.12.2010-20:45 < LukasT> Ok, next? 27.12.2010-20:45 < slangkamp> most important is that we have a list of thin= gs that the blender people need, last year we were too late and they were t= o busy with the movie 27.12.2010-20:45 < Kubuntiac> boud: I'm happy to help with any editing if y= ou want an English native speaker 27.12.2010-20:45 < Pentalis> I remember their most important needs: freely = rotating canvas, customizable hotkeys for everything, quality mixbrush (pre= ferably of watercolor tendencies) 27.12.2010-20:45 < boud> billstei: david revoy hangs out here regularly. kr= ita still isn't fast enough for him, though -- but the last time he tried i= t was more like "I'm not completely familiar yet, and I am in a hurry now" 27.12.2010-20:46 -!- sinozzuke [~sinozzuke@167.204.218.87.dynamic.jazztel.e= s] has joined #krita 27.12.2010-20:46 * Pentalis corrects himself after reading boud, "their mo= st important needs other than performance and stability" 27.12.2010-20:46 < boud> Pentalis: well, hotkeys and mix brush is something= we need to focus on 27.12.2010-20:46 < boud> LukasT: right, I've got an action point and I'll c= ontact Ton this year 27.12.2010-20:47 < boud> so -- next 27.12.2010-20:47 < LukasT> Manual 27.12.2010-20:47 < slangkamp> boud: did you hear anything from Dreamworks? 27.12.2010-20:47 < Kubuntiac> I think there's some definite usability stuff= that could be improved without much coding, but failing that docs on how K= irta's system works as its quite different to PS / Gimp / 27.12.2010-20:47 < boud> I've horribly over-estimated my own spare time for= the manual :-( 27.12.2010-20:48 < LukasT> boud: ok, do we need to sponsor you to find time? 27.12.2010-20:48 < boud> slangkamp: no, though Imailed them tw times 27.12.2010-20:48 < boud> LukasT: I'm too overcommitted 27.12.2010-20:48 < verbalshadow> boud: it is up somewhere we can look at/ed= it? 27.12.2010-20:48 < boud> verbalshadow: yes, on userbase.kde.org 27.12.2010-20:49 < boud> verbalshadow: what we need for the manual is one a= uthor, to keep consistency of style 27.12.2010-20:49 < LukasT> boud: ok, but there is this point manual, if we = would fund raise that one, what the money will be used for? 27.12.2010-20:49 < boud> verbalshadow: and then a host of people to fix it = up, do screenshots and then edit 27.12.2010-20:49 < LukasT> I noticed e.g. in Inkscape that they don't do fu= nd raising for books or manuals 27.12.2010-20:49 < LukasT> but I might be mistaken.. 27.12.2010-20:49 < boud> LukasT: well 27.12.2010-20:49 < boud> the difference is, inkscape is big enough that pub= lishers pay authors (badly) to write books 27.12.2010-20:49 < boud> and that helps a lot 27.12.2010-20:50 < boud> and though irina has done her first bit of artwork= with Krita, I doubt she's got the knowledge about raster graphics apps to = write a handbook 27.12.2010-20:50 < verbalshadow> LukasT: we have done flossmanuals drives i= n inkscape 27.12.2010-20:50 < LukasT> verbalshadow: yes, good point, can you share wha= t they provide? 27.12.2010-20:51 < slangkamp> so we just need to grow big enough that peopl= e are paid to write books about Krita 27.12.2010-20:51 < Kubuntiac> Seems to me that if we focus on getting the a= pp out to users (ie OBS / Win / Mac) we get more non-coder contributors to = work on doco etc 27.12.2010-20:51 < boud> slangkamp: I trust that we reach that point in 201= 1, actually! Depending ontheir being a windows installer. 27.12.2010-20:51 < Kubuntiac> Right now we need all our coders, well, codin= g :) 27.12.2010-20:51 < verbalshadow> they provide a wiki like editing environme= nt and output to pdf and other formats IIRC 27.12.2010-20:51 < LukasT> we already have Mag. Leonhard Landrock 27.12.2010-20:51 < LukasT> he also worked on the manual 27.12.2010-20:51 < LukasT> verbalshadow: they don't fund, ya? 27.12.2010-20:52 < verbalshadow> not that i recall, we have promoted books = by community members like Tav 27.12.2010-20:53 < slangkamp> once there are books we could earn some money= from that too 27.12.2010-20:53 < LukasT> I personally think we should focus for 2011 on f= undraising the development again.=20 27.12.2010-20:54 < LukasT> I would post-pone the manual, what other thinks? 27.12.2010-20:54 < boud> well 27.12.2010-20:54 < boud> I think that getting interesting in writing a manu= al is dependent on having a good version of krita for windows 27.12.2010-20:54 < Kubuntiac> I think a manual is mainly important when yo = uhave users to use it, thus my focus on easy deployment for users 27.12.2010-20:54 < boud> I also think that writing a manual now is speculat= ive, but could really pay out for the author 27.12.2010-20:54 < verbalshadow> http://userbase.kde.org/Applications/en is= anyone else see non-english on this page? 27.12.2010-20:55 < verbalshadow> seeing 27.12.2010-20:55 < boud> verbalshadow: yes :-). Looks like Romanian 27.12.2010-20:55 < Kubuntiac> Yeah I see something...looks like... Catlan? 27.12.2010-20:55 < LukasT> http://userbase.kde.org/Applications 27.12.2010-20:56 < LukasT> that works in english 27.12.2010-20:56 < Pentalis> -- I believe getting Krita packaged for Window= s will attract more users than a well written manual. My rationale is: Wind= ows users are numerous, there is bound to be some of them making posts in t= heir blogs, comments in Wikis, and maybe even a YouTube video explaining th= e software if they grow to love it. ---- They did it with SAI, and I've = seen it grow constantly in popularity. 27.12.2010-20:56 < boud> ok 27.12.2010-20:56 < boud> let's go to the windows version then 27.12.2010-20:56 < slangkamp> but the windows version needs to be good 27.12.2010-20:56 < boud> yes 27.12.2010-20:57 < boud> two things I want to note before we start the disc= ussion: 27.12.2010-20:57 < Pentalis> Yes, it must be as good as the Linux version w= hich in turn needs to be fabulous, or the chance to win hype will be wasted. 27.12.2010-20:57 < LukasT> Just note that Windows version does not bring Wi= ndows developers http://prokoudine.info/blog/2010/12/the-more-the-better/ 27.12.2010-20:57 < Kubuntiac> I was thinking about that post 27.12.2010-20:57 < boud> * the digikam windows installer works -- but they = are kept back by the quality of kde on windows 27.12.2010-20:57 < Kubuntiac> I think the problem is he makes no distinctio= n between users and community 27.12.2010-20:57 < boud> for gimp, it doesn't bring developers, but it does= bring a stream of money, articles and books 27.12.2010-20:58 < Kubuntiac> Gimp has a lot of users, but it doesn't seem = that community focussed for it's size. Compare that to Blender. 27.12.2010-20:58 < boud> * there's a foundation in the netherlands that mig= ht want to sponsor KO to create a calligra installer for windows 27.12.2010-20:58 < LukasT> oh, that sounds good 27.12.2010-20:58 < boud> if there's a calligra installer, krita will be eas= y. And KO GmbH has currently a job candidate who's an expert on windows ins= tallers and things 27.12.2010-20:59 < boud> so I hope that the installer will come; the proble= m will still be the quality of the kde libs on windows. 27.12.2010-20:59 < slangkamp> cool 27.12.2010-20:59 < billstei> so the WIndows version is dependent on KDE or = QT ? 27.12.2010-20:59 < LukasT> billstei: both 27.12.2010-20:59 < slangkamp> both 27.12.2010-20:59 < boud> billstei: both 27.12.2010-20:59 < boud> :-) 27.12.2010-20:59 < billstei> :( 27.12.2010-21:00 * dmitryK 's english reading is too slow to get it time w= ith others typing =3D) 27.12.2010-21:00 < boud> and it's not even the libraries that are the probl= em: it's the daemons, imo. 27.12.2010-21:00 < LukasT> dmitryK: we can change the language to german, I= 'm in Munich, they don't speak English there so I'm trapped 27.12.2010-21:01 < boud> ach, nein! Nicht auf Deutch!=20 27.12.2010-21:01 < LukasT> boud: would it give sense to fund raise somebody= from Krita to support the KO effort ? 27.12.2010-21:01 < boud> LukasT: I don't think so. 27.12.2010-21:01 < boud> LukasT: if the KO thing doesn't work out, then we'= ll have to make a new plan 27.12.2010-21:01 < Kubuntiac> Probably better to help efforts for KO to rai= se funds for themselves 27.12.2010-21:01 < boud> otherwise we'll just be duplicating effort, I thin= k. 27.12.2010-21:01 < LukasT> ok, let's make it conditional point=20 27.12.2010-21:02 < dmitryK> well, men, what i understood from the discussio= n: "We need to make it very stable and very user friendly first. That is th= e starting point of every way." 27.12.2010-21:02 < LukasT> dmitryK: wrong 27.12.2010-21:02 < boud> so, Windows is important, but we don't have to spe= nd effort on it. 27.12.2010-21:02 < LukasT> dmitryK: stable and fast 27.12.2010-21:02 < boud> LukasT: dmitryK is right 27.12.2010-21:02 < boud> ah, ok 27.12.2010-21:02 < boud> stable is the main thing :-) 27.12.2010-21:02 < LukasT> we don't care about user friendy, we here on IRC= are user friendly already 27.12.2010-21:02 < boud> we really need to become as allergic to crashes as= the Nasa is :P 27.12.2010-21:03 < dmitryK> LukasT: i think user-friendly includes the defi= nition of "fast" =3D) 27.12.2010-21:03 < LukasT> ok, then the Windows installer is solved 27.12.2010-21:03 < boud> LGM now? 27.12.2010-21:03 < LukasT> ok 27.12.2010-21:03 < LukasT> I would like to attend the LGM in Canada 27.12.2010-21:03 < boud> LukasT and Animtim intend to go to LGM in Montreal= , right? 27.12.2010-21:04 < boud> Both need to submit presentations and ask KDE e.V.= for sponsorship -- but that won't be a problem 27.12.2010-21:04 < Kubuntiac> I may be able to make Montreal, too 27.12.2010-21:04 < boud> I also think that it won't be a problem for others= to go and get sponsorship 27.12.2010-21:04 < LukasT> I would like to report our progress in Krita dev= elopment and do some showcase of the hot features and not just paintops thi= s time 27.12.2010-21:04 < boud> Kubuntiac: you're no doubt eligible for sponsorshi= p as well 27.12.2010-21:04 < boud> LukasT: right 27.12.2010-21:04 < Kubuntiac> he, I don't think Id need it 27.12.2010-21:04 < Kubuntiac> Its one 5 hours drive from here 27.12.2010-21:05 < boud> anyone else who wants to go? 27.12.2010-21:05 < LukasT> Animtim's role would be to do some Krita workshop 27.12.2010-21:05 < boud> Pentalis, billstei: you're in the same half of the= globe, aren't you? 27.12.2010-21:05 < Pentalis> boud: Same half, different quarter 27.12.2010-21:06 < LukasT> :D 27.12.2010-21:06 < billstei> yes, I would go but is the cost justified? 27.12.2010-21:06 < boud> Pentalis: still.... 27.12.2010-21:06 < kig> re: stable, do you have unit tests?=20 27.12.2010-21:06 < dmitryK> btw, about speed: Krita's blur filter on core 2= duo works slower than PS7 on AthlonXP 2000+ eight years old =3D( 27.12.2010-21:06 < boud> billstei: kde contributors get funded to visit con= ferences like this 27.12.2010-21:06 * Pentalis googles LGM quickly to see what it is about 27.12.2010-21:06 < boud> Kubuntiac: yes, about a hundred 27.12.2010-21:07 < boud> dmitryK: shall I put that under your action points? 27.12.2010-21:07 < billstei> I will go if someone pays for (most of) it 27.12.2010-21:07 < LukasT> dmitryK: fix it! 27.12.2010-21:07 < LukasT> :) 27.12.2010-21:07 < Kubuntiac> boud: eh? 100 what? 27.12.2010-21:07 < boud> Kubuntiac: about a hundred unittests 27.12.2010-21:07 < boud> it was meant for kig ... 27.12.2010-21:07 < Kubuntiac> kig !=3D kubuntiac :) 27.12.2010-21:07 < boud> stupid autocompletely, why can't it read my mind 27.12.2010-21:07 < Pentalis> boud: I don't think I am prepared to go there = in 2011, I think 2012 will be the year (if the world doesn't end by then ;= ) ) 27.12.2010-21:07 < Kubuntiac> because you haven't coded it yet :) 27.12.2010-21:07 < dmitryK> boud: i didn't even tried to get into it yet 27.12.2010-21:08 < boud> Pentalis: let's try to get you to the krita sprint= , though 27.12.2010-21:08 < boud> so... for lgm -- we've added billstei to the list = of attendees. Anyone else? 27.12.2010-21:08 < dmitryK> LukasT: it's just about optimization on design = level of newly written paitops ;P 27.12.2010-21:08 < boud> I think I might just be too busy, though I haven't= got any travel booked for May yet... 27.12.2010-21:08 < Kubuntiac> boud: When is the sprint? 27.12.2010-21:08 < boud> Kubuntiac: we need to discuss that next 27.12.2010-21:09 * Kubuntiac wants to make the sprint if possible, depoend= ing on the wheres and whens 27.12.2010-21:09 * billstei wonders if he needs a passport for Canada 27.12.2010-21:09 < boud> billstei: officially, KDE e.V. pays 80 percent of = travel/accomodation. Often it's 100%/ 27.12.2010-21:09 < Kubuntiac> billstei: yup, I think 27.12.2010-21:09 < billstei> 80% will do it 27.12.2010-21:09 < Kubuntiac> billstei: I need one to enter the US 27.12.2010-21:10 < LukasT> boud: wasn't it somehow related if you give a pr= esentation/workshop? 27.12.2010-21:10 < boud> LukasT: yes, but even there, there's flexibility. = Especially for people who are relatively new to KDE 27.12.2010-21:10 < verbalshadow> LukasT: have you ever played with the draw= ing program expression3, it has some neat brush ideas 27.12.2010-21:10 < LukasT> verbalshadow: notes that one -- no 27.12.2010-21:10 < billstei> i don't have much to say (yet) 27.12.2010-21:11 < boud> billstei: but a lot to learn... 27.12.2010-21:11 < billstei> mostly just complaining 27.12.2010-21:11 < boud> there's some very good beer in Montreal, as well. 27.12.2010-21:11 < billstei> Workshop: Whining and Bitching 27.12.2010-21:12 < billstei> (includes free, as in beer) 27.12.2010-21:12 < LukasT> :D 27.12.2010-21:12 < boud> :-) 27.12.2010-21:12 < LukasT> :D 27.12.2010-21:12 < boud> ok 27.12.2010-21:12 < Pentalis> dmitryK: The blur filter uses the fast foutier= transform method of convolution, we're using an external library (FFTW) wh= ich is optimized to the brim in speed, so if there are bottlenecks, I think= these are in other parts of the code. 27.12.2010-21:12 < boud> I need to take short break myself, after that, let= 's discuss the 2011 sprint 27.12.2010-21:14 * CyrilleB read a bit the backlog... wrt openexr, I think= blender 2.50 is "fixed", but we need to fix some performance issues relate= d to ctl/rgbf 27.12.2010-21:14 < billstei> i have bad knees, I can't sprint anywhere exce= pt the toilet 27.12.2010-21:14 < verbalshadow> billstei: i would attend your talk 27.12.2010-21:14 < LukasT> =3D=3D ok, so here come the short commercial bre= ak =3D=3D=20 27.12.2010-21:15 < dmitryK> we just need: place, time and who will be able = to make visa(s) ;) 27.12.2010-21:15 < CyrilleB> small things to decide 27.12.2010-21:15 < LukasT> I was offering to help boud back in Helsinki 27.12.2010-21:15 < LukasT> with the organization 27.12.2010-21:15 < LukasT> but I'm in munich for 3 months 27.12.2010-21:15 < LukasT> I though it would be somewhere in Slovakia 27.12.2010-21:16 < kig> boud: one thing that might be useful for catching c= rashes is fuzz testing (write a small script that generates random valid fu= nction calls, let it rip on the API). at least it's been very helpful for f= inding segfaults in my code 27.12.2010-21:16 < LukasT> kig: krita is quite huge for this 27.12.2010-21:16 < LukasT> kig: and we don't use scripts currently, we use = users to find them 27.12.2010-21:16 < boud> kig: yes, that's a great idea. Can you help with t= hat? 27.12.2010-21:17 < boud> I am planning fuzzing for the calligra opendocumen= t code, but i haven't considered it for krita yet 27.12.2010-21:17 < boud> And I'm not sure where to start 27.12.2010-21:17 < CyrilleB> different kind of fuzzing 27.12.2010-21:18 < dmitryK> kig: what is the difference between fuzzing and= random stresstesting? 27.12.2010-21:18 < kig> hmm, i can at least do a test generator 27.12.2010-21:18 < kig> dmitryK: i have no idea, really 27.12.2010-21:18 < kig> the prob is that you kinda need a well-defined api = to test 27.12.2010-21:19 < verbalshadow> random stress testing isn't always limited= to valid inputs 27.12.2010-21:19 < boud> well, if you can give it a try... even if the outc= ome is that the api needs fixing, it's valuable. 27.12.2010-21:19 < LukasT> short commercial break over? 27.12.2010-21:19 < boud> yes, I'm back again :-) 27.12.2010-21:19 < LukasT> ok, the sprint 27.12.2010-21:19 < boud> the sprint 27.12.2010-21:19 < LukasT> Slovakia 27.12.2010-21:19 < LukasT> problems: I'm in Munich 27.12.2010-21:20 < LukasT> cons: cheap food and possibly cheap hotels 27.12.2010-21:20 < CyrilleB> and it is not that cheap :) 27.12.2010-21:20 < boud> and it's not a cheap as everyone thougt... 27.12.2010-21:20 < LukasT> pros of course 27.12.2010-21:20 < LukasT> I mixed it 27.12.2010-21:20 < boud> so, we need a location with a meeting room big eno= ugh for the bigger team. We won't fit in my house anymore 27.12.2010-21:20 < Kubuntiac> :( 27.12.2010-21:20 < LukasT> :) 27.12.2010-21:21 < boud> renting a suitable space will be ~500 euros for th= e weekend in .nl, excluding coffee 27.12.2010-21:21 < Kubuntiac> true, :) 27.12.2010-21:21 < jonnor> when are you holding this sprint? 27.12.2010-21:21 < LukasT> I would propose maybe KDAB's office? 27.12.2010-21:21 < LukasT> they used to pay one dinner ... 27.12.2010-21:21 < LukasT> jonnor: not set yet 27.12.2010-21:21 < boud> well, we're in kdab's office already for the calli= gra sprint, and I hate to impose 27.12.2010-21:21 < boud> jonnor: Q1, preferably 27.12.2010-21:21 < slangkamp> boud: we could ask ton for the blender instit= ue ;) 27.12.2010-21:21 < boud> slangkamp: good idea, I'll ask that 27.12.2010-21:22 < Pentalis> Chile. Advantages: cheap food, cheap hotels, n= o need for Visas. Disadvantages: nobody will understand a word, it's on the= other side of the planet. 27.12.2010-21:22 < CyrilleB> and direct flight to amsterdam :) 27.12.2010-21:22 < LukasT> Amsterdam is not cheap :( 27.12.2010-21:22 < CyrilleB> boud: there is the linux hotel too 27.12.2010-21:22 < boud> yes, that's a good option. 27.12.2010-21:22 < LukasT> CyrilleB: free as in beer? 27.12.2010-21:22 < billstei> Minneapolis: cons: snow, snow, snow Pros: ? 27.12.2010-21:22 < boud> So action point for me; ask ton about blender inst= ititue and ask troubalex/ingwa about the linux hotel. 27.12.2010-21:23 < boud> billstei: good beer? 27.12.2010-21:23 -!- sinozzuke [~sinozzuke@167.204.218.87.dynamic.jazztel.e= s] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 27.12.2010-21:23 < billstei> *cold* beer 27.12.2010-21:23 < Kubuntiac> We also have room in North Ontario for 12-14 = :) Not many pubs within 100k though 27.12.2010-21:23 -!- sinozzuke [~sinozzuke@167.204.218.87.dynamic.jazztel.e= s] has joined #krita 27.12.2010-21:23 < LukasT> Linux hotel is in Amsterdam? 27.12.2010-21:23 < CyrilleB> billstei: I would classify snow as pros :) 27.12.2010-21:23 < dmitryK> billstei: pros: snow, snow, snow! ;) 27.12.2010-21:23 < boud> and minneapolis is the home of my favourite web co= mic 27.12.2010-21:23 * dmitryK is for Minneapoli 27.12.2010-21:23 < boud> LukasT: no, near Essen 27.12.2010-21:23 < CyrilleB> LukasT: nope 27.12.2010-21:23 < slangkamp> LukasT: well after Oslo everything is cheaper= :) 27.12.2010-21:23 < LukasT> slangkamp: :) 27.12.2010-21:24 < dmitryK> slangkamp: +1 27.12.2010-21:24 < CyrilleB> billstei: but I would say con: minneapolis is = in the US ;) 27.12.2010-21:24 < boud> yeah, let's never ever go to Oslo again 27.12.2010-21:24 < CyrilleB> slangkamp: we could go to switzerland ;) 27.12.2010-21:24 < LukasT> Americans! 27.12.2010-21:24 * billstei is not actually from Minneapolis 27.12.2010-21:24 < boud> ok... I think I've got an action point 27.12.2010-21:24 < slangkamp> CyrilleB: no! 27.12.2010-21:25 < CyrilleB> if we go to switzerland, we might even get bar= t back ;p 27.12.2010-21:25 < boud> one thing I wanted to ask was: how difficult will = it be for people to attend for a longer period than just the weekend? 27.12.2010-21:25 < boud> bart! 27.12.2010-21:25 < Pentalis> I have no difficulties of any kind. Wherever t= he sprint is, my biggest problem will be getting the visa. 27.12.2010-21:25 < boud> I should ask him about room at his university 27.12.2010-21:25 < dmitryK> boud: for me the only problem is military depar= tment, but i think this is doable 27.12.2010-21:25 < LukasT> in Q1 I don't have many vacation :( 27.12.2010-21:26 < dmitryK> boud: so actually, it can be solved 27.12.2010-21:26 < boud> dmitryK: cool 27.12.2010-21:26 < slangkamp> boud: depends on the date 27.12.2010-21:26 < CyrilleB> boud: I will probably limit myself to the week= =2Dend 27.12.2010-21:26 < boud> LukasT: I don't have a lot of holidays either, and= at least one business trip every month this year, or so it seems... 27.12.2010-21:26 < boud> CyrilleB: ok 27.12.2010-21:26 < boud> slangkamp: ok, we need to figure that out 27.12.2010-21:27 < billstei> i can do the sprint for a whole year 27.12.2010-21:27 < LukasT> I will be limited to the weekend +- 2 days maxim= um=20 27.12.2010-21:27 < boud> I guess that in the end, .nl is easiest, both trav= el-wise and visum-wise, since I can be host and do the paperwork. 27.12.2010-21:27 * LukasT nostalgically remembers the awesome week=20 27.12.2010-21:27 * Kubuntiac wants to see .nl 27.12.2010-21:27 * LukasT would prefer .de 27.12.2010-21:28 * LukasT likes the german food=20 27.12.2010-21:28 < Kubuntiac> :) 27.12.2010-21:28 < boud> for .de, slangkamp will have to do all the visum s= tuff, or maybe we can get claudia to fix it. 27.12.2010-21:29 < LukasT> ok, sprint point done? 27.12.2010-21:30 < boud> I guess -- we want one, and it's up to me to fix a= location and date. And it might be a bit longer than just the weekend, but= with flexible attendance. 27.12.2010-21:30 < boud> and .nl or .de are easiest, visum wise. 27.12.2010-21:30 < billstei> what about fundum-wise? 27.12.2010-21:30 < boud> billstei: KDE e.V. funds sprint travel + accomodat= ion 27.12.2010-21:30 < billstei> no way 27.12.2010-21:31 < Kubuntiac> We love you KDE Ev! 27.12.2010-21:31 < billstei> i could see the Motherland 27.12.2010-21:31 < boud> which doesn't mean that we shouldn't be careful an= d check the cheapest option, but last year shicmap came from Canada, no pro= blems there. 27.12.2010-21:31 < slangkamp> date also depends on the location, I guess bl= ender institute and linux hotel could have limitations 27.12.2010-21:31 < boud> and KDE e.V. is very supportive of bringing people= together from everywhere. 27.12.2010-21:31 < LukasT> Every airplane path seem to lead to amsterdam.. 27.12.2010-21:32 < Kubuntiac> lol 27.12.2010-21:32 < boud> LukasT: it's the third or fourth biggest air hub i= n the world... 27.12.2010-21:32 < Kubuntiac> itsthe new rome :) 27.12.2010-21:32 < Kubuntiac> as in all roads lead to... 27.12.2010-21:32 < boud> :-) 27.12.2010-21:32 < boud> Ok 27.12.2010-21:33 < boud> one big point left, as far as I can tell -- and th= at's gsoc/gci and how can we keep the people who entered the project throug= h these programs active 27.12.2010-21:33 < boud> and the brainstorming 27.12.2010-21:33 * LukasT away for minutes 27.12.2010-21:33 < LukasT> 5 minutes and I'm back 27.12.2010-21:34 < boud> I need to kiss my daughters goodnight, so afk as w= ell 27.12.2010-21:34 < matusT> i will stay active after end of gci :) 27.12.2010-21:34 < dmitryK> boud: suggest a cool project afterwards? 27.12.2010-21:34 < Kubuntiac> I'd say keeping people involved is about a) K= eeping them updated, b) making it easy to get started (ie marking junior jo= bs) and c) asking :) 27.12.2010-21:34 < billstei> More Mahnay 27.12.2010-21:35 < CyrilleB> LukasT: the only three places with more airtra= ffic in europe are london, paris and frankfurt ;) (I can't say for frankfur= t, but the other two places are very expensive) 27.12.2010-21:35 < CyrilleB> Kubuntiac: b) -> well they don't need junior j= obs anymore :) 27.12.2010-21:35 < Kubuntiac> ? 27.12.2010-21:36 < boud> billstei: while the sponsorship certainly has help= ed Krita a lot this year, I would like to make sure gsoc/gci people don't s= tay around just because of the shekels. 27.12.2010-21:37 * LukasT back 27.12.2010-21:38 < LukasT> Ok, I will show some problem I see 27.12.2010-21:38 < boud> dmitryK: but yes, we might want to spend a bit of = time creating a good page with cool projects at the next sprint. The one we= made for LukasT' universit was a good start, I think. 27.12.2010-21:38 < boud> LukasT: you've the floor 27.12.2010-21:38 < LukasT> I think we should have some rules how to select = the developers that will be sponsored 27.12.2010-21:38 < Kubuntiac> boud: I'm up for helping with that 27.12.2010-21:39 < boud> Kubuntiac: ok, noted -- let's get together this we= ek and convert the text in a project ideas page for krita.org 27.12.2010-21:39 < LukasT> E.g. I think the developer should have enough kn= owledge=20 27.12.2010-21:39 < Kubuntiac> boud: k 27.12.2010-21:39 < boud> LukasT: we're talking about gsoc/gci students here= , not sponsored developers 27.12.2010-21:39 < LukasT> ah, ok different topic=20 27.12.2010-21:39 < LukasT> ? 27.12.2010-21:39 < boud> I think so 27.12.2010-21:40 < CyrilleB> yes, it is how to keep the people who got paid= when they are not paid anymore :) 27.12.2010-21:40 < LukasT> in my case it is clear 27.12.2010-21:40 < LukasT> I take Krita as hobby also 27.12.2010-21:40 < LukasT> I'm funded for doing dirty work, fixing bugs 27.12.2010-21:41 < Kubuntiac> Emphasising the value of helping FOSS as a CV= piece may help... 27.12.2010-21:41 < LukasT> that is not my hobby, I have enough bugs in my f= ull-time job :) 27.12.2010-21:41 < boud> Kubuntiac: the weird thing is, it's certainly true= -- I never hire anyone who hasn't got a lot of foss experience 27.12.2010-21:41 < LukasT> yep, CV entry can help sometimes 27.12.2010-21:42 < boud> and the same goes for lots of other interesting jo= bs 27.12.2010-21:42 < Kubuntiac> Working on FOSS is free, industry relevant tr= aining... 27.12.2010-21:42 < LukasT> but really sometimes :) 27.12.2010-21:42 < Pentalis> ~~~~ Incoming wall of text ~~~~ 27.12.2010-21:42 < Pentalis> My proposal to set goals: 27.12.2010-21:42 < Pentalis> INTRO --- Everyone contributing to Krita has d= ifferent interests and skills, just like users have different expectations = of what the software should do. So far, roadmaps have been done by develope= rs taking into account user feedback. However, opening the process even mor= e could be benefical. 27.12.2010-21:42 < Pentalis> PROPOSAL --- Creating a Wiki or simple message= board where users can add a feature wish, the importance (to them) of this= feature wish (in numbers), as well as explaining why it is important/usefu= l to them. Yes, KDE Bugzilla already offers a similar infrastructure for= Wishes, but it is lacking. This infrastructure should automatically sum = scores of relative importance to wishes, thus making it much easier to gaug= e what users want from the software. 27.12.2010-21:42 < Pentalis> And some tasks are bound to be easier than oth= ers, there hobbist new developers can test their skill and make their first= commits, feel happy that they did something meaningful to all those people= wanting the feature, and get their developer account if they want to stay.= =20 27.12.2010-21:42 < Pentalis> FINAL NOTE --- This is only a proposal to orga= nize goals, I'm sure it'll help keeping contributors motivated or may make = bringing contributors a bit easier, but I still am not sure how to make the= m stay. 27.12.2010-21:42 * Pentalis hides from the lynching 27.12.2010-21:42 < Kubuntiac> slogan: "Change the world. Get a great job. F= ree training. Ask me how!" :) 27.12.2010-21:43 < boud> Pentalis: ok... this sounds like the kde brainstor= m forum, but focussed on Krita 27.12.2010-21:43 < boud> Pentalis: it's a good idea -- maybe we can create = a new forum for it and advertise it a bit? 27.12.2010-21:43 < CyrilleB> (or use kde brainstorm :) ) 27.12.2010-21:44 < Kubuntiac> It really *does* sound like bugs.kde.org to m= e... they add up the votes, too :) I just wish brainstorm forum had separat= ion of idea fro implementation like ubuntu brainstorm 27.12.2010-21:44 < Pentalis> boud CyrilleB: (attempt at mixing feedback) us= e kde brainstorm with a forum specific to Krita and advertise it with a BIG= banner in krita.org? 27.12.2010-21:45 * Pentalis checks kde brainstorm which he didn't even kno= w of its existance 27.12.2010-21:45 < billstei> and kde brainstorm adds up votes? like a poll? 27.12.2010-21:45 < boud> I never manage to look at the wishes in bugzilla -= =2D there's just too much of it, and for wishes, a forum might work better 27.12.2010-21:45 < Kubuntiac> Without separation of idea / implementation y= ou get vague but huge ideas with a zillion votes like "Make Krita perfect! = (10,0000 votes)" 27.12.2010-21:45 < CyrilleB> Pentalis: kde brainstorm has tags, no need for= subforum 27.12.2010-21:45 < Kubuntiac> billstei: Yes, you can see votes added on the= idea 27.12.2010-21:46 < Kubuntiac> You don't see all ideas ranked by vote though= (I think)=20 27.12.2010-21:46 < CyrilleB> here are all the brainstorms for krita http://= forum.kde.org/search.php?tags=3Dkrita&sr=3Dtopics 27.12.2010-21:46 < Pentalis> The most important feature is the auto-talling= of votes / relative importance and automatic building of a ranking of most= popular feature requests; all those automatizable tasks should be done by = a computer such that human beings can rip the benefits. 27.12.2010-21:46 < Kubuntiac> Does anyone ever look at the Krita brainstorm= s? 27.12.2010-21:46 < dmitryK> Kubuntiac: erm... =3D) 27.12.2010-21:46 < boud> Kubuntiac: well... 27.12.2010-21:47 < Pentalis> Kubuntiac: where, when? 27.12.2010-21:47 < boud> but we're moving away from the topic a bit 27.12.2010-21:47 < CyrilleB> :) 27.12.2010-21:47 < Pentalis> Yeah, it was a bit of an idea to keep full new= bies motivated and finding what they need faster, instead of having to ask. 27.12.2010-21:47 < Kubuntiac> I'm good at that (along with billstei :) 27.12.2010-21:47 < slangkamp> I guess a "Make a photoshop clone" would get = 10000 votes ;) 27.12.2010-21:47 < Pentalis> I can bring this discussion to the mailing lis= t ----> moving topic back to where it was. 27.12.2010-21:48 < boud> so, we've got two or three things: 27.12.2010-21:48 < boud> * cool projects page (kubuntiac + boud) 27.12.2010-21:48 < boud> * advertise brainstorm (pentalis + boud) 27.12.2010-21:49 < boud> * really make clear to people we mentor that we ex= pect everyone to be around after the project ends 27.12.2010-21:49 < boud> anything else? 27.12.2010-21:49 < Kubuntiac> You mean a new brainstorm or brainstorm on fo= rum.kde.org? 27.12.2010-21:49 < billstei> * clone boud (boud) 27.12.2010-21:49 < boud> yeah 27.12.2010-21:49 < boud> my scalability is a bit of a problem, I'm afraid 27.12.2010-21:50 < Kubuntiac> we'll see what a bunch of slovakian beer does= to that :) 27.12.2010-21:50 < boud> :-) 27.12.2010-21:51 < boud> As a last point for this meeting, I'm really inter= ested if anyone here has something like "I really wanna do X in 2011" or "I= really wanna see X in 2011" 27.12.2010-21:52 < Kubuntiac> Other than World Domination=E2=84=A2... 27.12.2010-21:52 < matusT> i am doing and i wana spread OpenCL in krita 27.12.2010-21:52 < Kubuntiac> I'd like to get more video of Krita out on th= e intertubes 27.12.2010-21:52 < billstei> i want to see the Motherland 27.12.2010-21:52 < LukasT> I want to stay on the brush engines topic in Kri= ta and doing crazy stuff with that 27.12.2010-21:53 < Kubuntiac> and get news out into the artist community as= well as the FOSS communitiy 27.12.2010-21:53 < LukasT> and of course I want to work as parttime develop= er for Krita in year 2011 27.12.2010-21:53 < CyrilleB> I want to do too many things :) 27.12.2010-21:53 < boud> CyrilleB: :-) 27.12.2010-21:54 < boud> right now, what I really want is to fix the resizi= ng dockers, but I know that that's a quixotic quest.=20 27.12.2010-21:54 < boud> and fix the psd support... But I need long train j= ourneys for that. 27.12.2010-21:54 < Kubuntiac> I also have some tentative ideas about a more= community focused krita.org. Been playing around with Elgg (FOSS social ne= twork). It's nice! 27.12.2010-21:55 < boud> Kubuntiac: bring it on! 27.12.2010-21:55 < slangkamp> most of the things I wanted to implement for = the next version are almost done ;) 27.12.2010-21:55 < Kubuntiac> :) 27.12.2010-21:55 < Kubuntiac> slangkamp: Someone's been turning up the awes= ome :) 27.12.2010-21:56 < boud> and there's still the integrated preset editor -- = there are a number of things david revoy and peter sikking hinted about tha= t are still to do. 27.12.2010-21:56 < billstei> sikking knows who we are? 27.12.2010-21:56 < boud> billstei: yes, he was with us last sprint 27.12.2010-21:57 < billstei> does he say nice things or does he make us fee= l bad? 27.12.2010-21:57 < boud> he helped us formulate the mission statement, amon= g other things 27.12.2010-21:57 < boud> let's say that he makes us think :-) 27.12.2010-21:58 < dmitryK> btw, about the things, that'll help newbies to = work more prolific -- a good UML (at least) for our code :( 27.12.2010-21:58 < boud> no gci student picked up on that... 27.12.2010-21:59 < billstei> code comments are evil No UML! 27.12.2010-22:00 < dmitryK> boud: when i were 14 i didn't know anything abo= ut UML (though i did some coding in VB and c++) =3D) 27.12.2010-22:00 < Pentalis> I'm guilty of that, I never put up the finishe= d draft for that in GCI. But I couldn't have tutored that and the brush ca= mpaign at the same time so I don't regret it much. 27.12.2010-22:00 < boud> dmitryK: when I was 14, UML didn't exist yet! 27.12.2010-22:00 < dmitryK> billstei: "code comments are evil" -- yes, but = UML !=3D "code comments" 27.12.2010-22:00 < matusT> cannot be UML just generated from code? 27.12.2010-22:00 * LukasT have to go 27.12.2010-22:01 * LukasT thanks for a nice time=20 27.12.2010-22:01 -!- heroid [~heroid@178.175.69.76] has quit [Ping timeout:= 240 seconds] 27.12.2010-22:01 < Pentalis> exactly at 22:00 be well LukasT 27.12.2010-22:01 < Kubuntiac> Later LukasT! 27.12.2010-22:01 < boud> matusT: it can -- but then it won't be too clear 27.12.2010-22:01 < boud> by LukasT=20 27.12.2010-22:01 < slangkamp> bye LukasT 27.12.2010-22:01 < boud> bye, I mean 27.12.2010-22:01 < dmitryK> LukasT: see you! 27.12.2010-22:01 < sgrosso> bye Lukas 27.12.2010-22:01 < boud> matusT: umbrello can help out at the beginning, bu= t onl for class diagrams, while it's the interaction diagrams that are most= important 27.12.2010-22:02 < matusT> boud: and what can do interaction diagrams? 27.12.2010-22:02 < dmitryK> boud, matusT: and UML should describe only main= traits of the systems, i guess 27.12.2010-22:03 < dmitryK> matusT: how the classes iteract with each other 27.12.2010-22:03 < Pentalis> Oh, forgot to say what I planned for 2011... U= sing Krita to make heaps of art, that's pretty much my second biggest prior= ity for the year in general. 27.12.2010-22:03 -!- LukasT [~LukasT@bband-dyn163.95-103-208.t-com.sk] has = quit [Quit: Leaving.] 27.12.2010-22:04 < Kubuntiac> Pentalis: Nice! Yeah, I want to do more art t= his year, too :) 27.12.2010-22:04 < dmitryK> boud: i guess, for the beginning, we just need = to show classes, associations and aggregations 27.12.2010-22:04 < matusT> dmitryK: i was not asking what is 27.12.2010-22:04 < matusT> dmitryK: boud sayd umbrello can help only with c= lass diagrams, so what other software can make/craete interaction diagrams? 27.12.2010-22:04 < CyrilleB> umbrello has support for interaction diagrams 27.12.2010-22:05 < slangkamp> boud: did you take notes so far? 27.12.2010-22:05 < dmitryK> matusT: ah, the developer, that is who can do t= hat, i guess ;) 27.12.2010-22:05 < dmitryK> CyrilleB: autogeneration? 27.12.2010-22:05 < boud> slangkamp: yes, a few 27.12.2010-22:06 < boud> slangkamp: I'll fix the notes up tomorrow when I'm= in the hospital, waiting for irina to be taken care of. 27.12.2010-22:06 < CyrilleB> dmitryK: no 27.12.2010-22:06 < dmitryK> matusT, CyrilleB: btw, all the previous times i= tried to auto-generate UML form Krita's code -- it hung up ;P 27.12.2010-22:06 < CyrilleB> but then, there is no FOSS application that su= pport generation 27.12.2010-22:07 < Kubuntiac> :'( 27.12.2010-22:07 < dmitryK> CyrilleB: i guess this is due to some KRITA_EXP= ORT stuff... just a guess.. 27.12.2010-22:07 < Kubuntiac> Hey, do we have a release date for 2.3? 27.12.2010-22:08 < CyrilleB> wednesday 27.12.2010-22:08 < Kubuntiac> eep! I better get moving with my video then... 27.12.2010-22:08 < boud> tomorrow night... I'll finish the 2.3 koffice chan= gelog. Wednesday morning I will have to get irina from the hospital, but I = still might be able to do a krita.org release article. 27.12.2010-22:08 < Kubuntiac> If anyone can think of any new features of v2= =2E3 I should cover, I'd love to hear them 27.12.2010-22:09 < dmitryK> Kubuntiac: canvas rotation? =3D) 27.12.2010-22:09 < boud> brushes, speed, canvas rotation, speed, masks, spe= ed, presets, color docker, speed, transform tool 27.12.2010-22:09 < slangkamp> and staaaaaabbbbbiliityyyyy 27.12.2010-22:10 < boud> we really need to release more often, since there'= s too much in 2.3 to take in 27.12.2010-22:10 < boud> slangkamp: right you are!=20 27.12.2010-22:10 * Kubuntiac tries to figure out how to record Krita *not*= crashing.... 27.12.2010-22:10 < boud> oh-oh 27.12.2010-22:10 < dmitryK> ok, i have to go now, good night! 27.12.2010-22:10 < boud> I only know of one crash I reproduce, and that's a= n assert, so hopefully not a crash in release mode 27.12.2010-22:10 < Kubuntiac> later dmitryK! 27.12.2010-22:10 < boud> dmitryK: bye! 27.12.2010-22:10 -!- dmitryK [~dmitryK@94.232.66.212] has quit [Remote host= closed the connection] 27.12.2010-22:11 < Kubuntiac> boud: By that, I didn't mean Krita is rashing= , I mean that recording a video of nothing happening is, well, boring :) 27.12.2010-22:11 < Kubuntiac> rashing =3D=3D crashing 27.12.2010-22:12 < slangkamp> we haven't decided what to sponsor next year = yet 27.12.2010-22:13 < boud> slangkamp: that's true 27.12.2010-22:13 < Pentalis> I have a wall of text written with respect to = the mixing engine in case the topic needs to be discussed. 27.12.2010-22:13 < boud> slangkamp: except that we have decided not to spon= sor: the manual and the windows installer 27.12.2010-22:13 < Kubuntiac> boud: If it helps for your changelog: http://= community.kde.org/Krita/V2.3UserFacingFeatures 27.12.2010-22:13 < boud> Kubuntiac: sure, thanks! 27.12.2010-22:14 < boud> slangkamp: there are two or three things sgrosso h= as offered sponsorship for: 27.12.2010-22:14 < boud> * fixing the crop tool 27.12.2010-22:14 < boud> * mix brush 27.12.2010-22:14 < boud> * fixing some remaining nasty bugs 27.12.2010-22:14 * Kubuntiac bows before sgrosso 27.12.2010-22:14 < boud> we've got a clear end date for that, as well as a = clear end-of-sponsorship -- and that's great 27.12.2010-22:14 < boud> we owe sgrosso a lot! 27.12.2010-22:14 < sgrosso> yes, I would like to sponsor them :-) 27.12.2010-22:15 < boud> after that, we really need to engage the community= again 27.12.2010-22:15 < CyrilleB> I thought we had decided to sponsor for blende= r's need 27.12.2010-22:15 < boud> that's a plan -- but I need to discuss that with T= on first. It's on my todo. 27.12.2010-22:16 < boud> sgrosso: :-) 27.12.2010-22:17 < CyrilleB> meaning we can't really take a decision 27.12.2010-22:17 < boud> CyrilleB: right 27.12.2010-22:17 < slangkamp> ok 27.12.2010-22:18 -!- sinozzuke [~sinozzuke@167.204.218.87.dynamic.jazztel.e= s] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 27.12.2010-22:18 -!- sinozzuke [~sinozzuke@167.204.218.87.dynamic.jazztel.e= s] has joined #krita 27.12.2010-22:19 < Kubuntiac> I think engaging the community comes down to = publicity (so they know we exist) and ease (making it easy to install and u= se). Other than windows, packages are vital imho as most artists will *neve= r* compile and the versions in most repo's are hideously old. In other word= s OBS FTW :) 27.12.2010-22:20 * Kubuntiac really should get back to investigating the o= bs 27.12.2010-22:21 < slangkamp> yeah many users use version that are really r= eally old 27.12.2010-22:21 < billstei> so, how difficult would it be to break KDE dep= endency and be QT-only ? 27.12.2010-22:22 < boud> about six months of work, I think. 27.12.2010-22:22 < Pentalis> There's a chain of dependencies. Krita -> KOff= ice -> KDE -> Qt. 27.12.2010-22:22 < Kubuntiac> Krita in next Ubuntu is currently 2.2.91... a= nd probably will still be when 2.4 comes out... :/ 27.12.2010-22:22 < boud> and we'd separate ourselves from the KDE community= , and that's a big price to pay as well. 27.12.2010-22:23 < Kubuntiac> aye 27.12.2010-22:23 < billstei> and then I wouldn't get to see the Motherland 27.12.2010-22:24 < billstei> wait, are we sprinting in Germany or the Lands= of Nether? 27.12.2010-22:24 < boud> not sure yet 27.12.2010-22:24 < boud> I'm going approach: 27.12.2010-22:24 < boud> * troubalex about the essen linux hotel 27.12.2010-22:24 < boud> * ton about the blender institute 27.12.2010-22:24 < boud> * bcoppens about his university (in belgium) 27.12.2010-22:25 < Kubuntiac> Mmmmm... Belgium chocolate :) 27.12.2010-22:25 < boud> though either netherlands or germany are most like= ly, because we've got residents there who can handle the visum needs 27.12.2010-22:25 -!- thorwil [~thorwil@p4FFB6A08.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit= [Remote host closed the connection] 27.12.2010-22:25 < matusT> problems with kde-dependancy could be solved if = someone work on that idea of merging kde and qt libraries... 27.12.2010-22:25 < boud> and, of course, nobody stops you to make a tour of= europe in ten days after the sprint is over! 27.12.2010-22:25 < boud> matusT: the libraries aren't even the biggest prob= lem 27.12.2010-22:26 < boud> matusT: the kde libs are only a couple of megs -- = the big issue is the various daemons that need to be running and be of the = right version and all that 27.12.2010-22:26 < Kubuntiac> matusT: The politics needed for that to happe= n would be...amazingly unlikely imo 27.12.2010-22:26 < Kubuntiac> not that I'm super informed 27.12.2010-22:27 < billstei> I only wondered because the WIndows installer = would probably be easier for QT-only 27.12.2010-22:27 < boud> billstei: yes, it would be easier 27.12.2010-22:28 < boud> though we use so many other 3rd party libraries, t= hat it's still not exactly easy :-) 27.12.2010-22:28 < billstei> ok right 27.12.2010-22:28 < boud> I need to go now as well -- see y'all 27.12.2010-22:29 < billstei> Linux will achieve Total World Domination in 2= 011 anyway 27.12.2010-22:29 < Kubuntiac> night boud! 27.12.2010-22:29 < Kubuntiac> billstei: This is the year... I can feel it! = :) 27.12.2010-22:29 < matusT> billstei: i hope not 27.12.2010-22:30 < billstei> 2012 ? 27.12.2010-22:30 < Kubuntiac> It'll probably just be that Linux is running = Google's servers when they pull it off... :/ 27.12.2010-22:30 < Kubuntiac> I for one welcome our new cloud-based overlor= ds :) 27.12.2010-22:31 < slangkamp> night boud 27.12.2010-22:31 < sgrosso> good night boud :-) 27.12.2010-22:32 < Kubuntiac> k, I'm off too. bbl 27.12.2010-22:32 < slangkamp> night Kubuntiac 27.12.2010-22:34 < billstei> so if I attend the sprint what do I have do? 27.12.2010-22:34 < billstei> solve World Peace 27.12.2010-22:34 < matusT> what i need to do if i want attend sprint? :) 27.12.2010-22:36 < matusT> ok bye=20 27.12.2010-22:37 -!- matusT [5f69e047@gateway/web/freenode/ip.95.105.224.71= ] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 27.12.2010-22:38 -!- n-pigeon [~przemo@host166.kopernika.miedzyrzecz.com.pl= ] has joined #krita 27.12.2010-22:39 < n-pigeon> hi evbd 27.12.2010-22:40 < slangkamp> Hi n-pigeon 27.12.2010-22:40 < slangkamp> billstei: no, just attend :) 27.12.2010-22:41 < billstei> don't i have to write code like a crazy-man? 27.12.2010-22:43 -!- heroid [~heroid@178.175.75.17] has joined #krita 27.12.2010-22:44 * billstei forces himself to go build Yet Another Windows= Machine 27.12.2010-22:44 < verbalshadow> billstei: don't do it , it not worth it 27.12.2010-22:44 < verbalshadow> it is=20 27.12.2010-22:45 < billstei> with Vista. It's like twisting the knife 27.12.2010-22:46 -!- mpeg [~quassel@bru67-1-82-227-48-153.fbx.proxad.net] h= as joined #krita 27.12.2010-22:47 -!- plassy [~quassel@ip-2-201-163-79.web.vodafone.de] has = quit [Remote host closed the connection] 27.12.2010-22:57 < sgrosso> I have to go as well, good night everyone :-) 27.12.2010-22:57 < Pentalis> Good night sgrosso! 27.12.2010-22:58 < n-pigeon> cya 27.12.2010-22:58 < sgrosso> Good night everyone :-) --Boundary-00=_vccIN3oLW90tTYN Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ kimageshop mailing list kimageshop@kde.org https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kimageshop --Boundary-00=_vccIN3oLW90tTYN--