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List:       kde-i18n-doc
Subject:    Re: Minimum translation percentage for Plasma 5 releases (second take)
From:       Albert Astals Cid <aacid () kde ! org>
Date:       2014-08-16 11:47:52
Message-ID: 1521752.2s1tDPviei () xps
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El Dissabte, 16 d'agost de 2014, a les 01:06:29, Luigi Toscano va escriure:
> Albert Astals Cid ha scritto:
> > El Divendres, 15 d'agost de 2014, a les 22:02:56, Chusslove Illich va
> > 
> > escriure:
> >>> [: Albert Astals Cid :]
> >>> Of course, read the subject, we are speaking about Plasma here, not
> >>> about
> >>> random applications [...]
> >> 
> >> I did consider the subject, but through other messages I got a feeling
> >> the
> >> discussion had broadened. For my part, I don't see why we would ponder
> >> about this for Plasma alone, without relation to other things.
> > 
> > Because we're only releasing KF5 and Plasma5 for the moment :D
> 
> As I wrote somewhere in this thread, the problem is linked and should be
> decided at the same time. Chusslove pointed out that the language setting of
> Plasma touches all the applications, so even if the desktop in language foo
> is nicely translated, all the other applications could be potentially

Yes, and that's something we can't fix. As said changing the language will 
change the langauge of your mozilla and gnome apps, how are we going to do 
anything about them?

> >> This particularly holds for the idea of warning in the language KCM. As
> >> this KCM is supposed to be used to choose the language of everything,
> >> and not just of the Plasma workspace.
> > 
> > Yes, but most probably you're changing it from plasma, so it's quite easy
> > to associate the shell with it, i mean it's not like we're going to show
> > a warning if Firefox translation is low, no?
> 
> And what about the other KDE applications then?
> The message says that the translations could be low, you open dolphin and
> you find it not translated. Uhm.
> Moreover, a 20% translated "workspace" could have all the string translated
> in plasmoids and not in core functionality.
> That's the reason why we have different thresholds for essential files till
> kdelibs4.
> I think we can still find which are the essential file and still enforce a
> threshold on the important strings which are used more.

And that's why we simply tell people the percentage and let them know that 
things may or not be broken, after that they can decide to go back or not and 
select a different language or not.

> 
> And yes, revisit the decision about Frameworks and the thresholds. The
> decision was made on a vision of "Frameworks only", but if we see the
> problem from a broader point of view of the entire community.

Frameworks don't need to care about what's upstream from them, that's an 
upstream problem.

> >>> [...] random applications never had a $PERCENTAGE limit.
> >> 
> >> They had it where the application's maintainer/release person decided to
> >> put one up, e.g. http://lists.kde.org/?l=kde-i18n-doc&m=128026717907347
> >> .> 
> > Right, non core apps had.
> 
> With decentralization, we can thresholds too in other applications.

What's the point on each application and language having a differen threshold?

> >> As for the "official" limit that was/is applied for KDE SC language
> >> packs, I personally always regarded it as a proxy for commitment of a
> >> language team, rather than as a measure of release-sufficient quantity
> >> on its own.>> 
> >>> Also I hope you're not suggesting a per langauge per application
> >>> $PERCENTAGE limit, are you?
> >> 
> >> I'm not suggesting it practically, no. Because I don't expect anyone
> >> would
> >> have the persistence to maintain a huge list of percentages for one's own
> >> language.
> >> 
> >> On the other hand, a single percentage per language for everything,
> >> default
> >> at 0%, would be feasible...
> > 
> > I don't understand what you mean here.
> 
> Compute the percentage per-language for all the applications, maybe? (i.e.
> same threshold which applies for all applications of the same language)
> Still voting for per-language thresholds.
> 
> >>>> [: Chusslove Illich :]
> >>>> I was thinking of a case where the user picks up a (glibc) locale in
> >>>> the
> >>>> login manager and that's it.
> >>> 
> >>> [: Albert Astals Cid :]
> >>> Yeah, that was already suggested by Luigi, and it's covered in the
> >>> "update" scenario, nothing hard at all.
> >> 
> >> I admit I didn't understand the bit about "update" scenario.
> > 
> > Say you move from x.y.z to a newer version and suddenly the percetage is
> > much lower, you'd get the warning the same you get it when selecting the
> > language. This can be apllied the same for "first installtions/runs".
> 
> And it does not solve the case for the (core) applications, which is
> something (as I already wrote) we should discuss too now.
> 
> Ciao

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