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List:       kde-i18n-doc
Subject:    Re: Translation Methods comparsion
From:       Chusslove Illich <caslav.ilic () gmx ! net>
Date:       2013-04-02 15:30:50
Message-ID: 201304021730.51045.caslav.ilic () gmx ! net
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Regarding the general idea of translatewiki.net-based translation workflow
for KDE, as expressed here:

  https://translatewiki.net/wiki/Translating:KDE#Akademy_submission:_A_web-based_translation_platform_for_KDE


First, it is great to continually experiment with new tools and workflows.
But, any new workflow has to cleanly interface with existing mechanisms, in
order to demonstrate its advantages and disadvantages without too much
disruption. This is what most of this thread has been so far. Furthermore, I
think it is reasonable to make it a requirement that one or few complete
language teams switch to the new workflow, to ease technical conflicts,
providing that no work will be lost if a team decides to abandon that
workflow after some time. Under these two conditions -- clean interfacing,
easy abandoning -- experimenting is just fine.

Second, I think that all existing web-based translation systems, including
translatewiki.net, are decisively flawed at the core. (At least when applied
to free software translation.)

The major motivating assumption that these systems take is this: the flatter
the learning curve in translation-related tools, the more translations will
be made (for the set quality level). I haven't seen this assumption backed
up with numbers so far. As long as operating on gut feeling, my assumption
is that "online" translators (those not willing to climb the "offline" tool
curve) will not be able to match either the quantity (summed over all
contributors) or the quality of translation, compared to "offline"
translators.

The major technical drawback of web-based translation systems is that they
mix into one three distinct functions, that of translation hub, translation
editor, and translation checker. The result is that they are less efficient
and less capable in any of these functions compared to dedicated standalone
tools. Furthermore, since the tool is monolithic and remote, translators
don't even get a shot at experimenting themselves with mixing in other
tools.

There are several counter-points made to this technical drawback, none of
which is very valid. One is that translators no longer have to worry about
particular translation file formats, as the web interface presents it all in
a uniform way. However, there are no "particular translation formats" in
free software translations: there is pretty much only PO. That little which
is not PO, is first converted into PO for translation. Another counter-point
is that translators no longer have to deal with varying offline tools, such
as particular VCS. This is also not true, because there are many web-based
translation systems, so translators now have to deal with varying online
tools. Finally, it is said "if you wish, just export to PO, translate
offline, then import back". This means that for that translator, the web-
based system reduces to translation hub only, and a very inefficient one
compared to a VCS.

I will now directly address Niklas' motivation points on the above page:

> I've seen the various file formats

Quantitatively, I don't think this is significant for free software. When a
non-PO format is offered by the programmer, the best reply is "please switch
to PO: it is the most supported format by free tools, as well as the most
capable format on its own."

> emailing files around

It is easier to send by email than to upload. The idea here is that while it
is harder to upload, it will be less of a burden to integrate, which means
more translations being made. This, however, still awaits the quantitative
proof.

> digging version control history to find changes

There are two elements here. One is finding the particular version of a
message, or listing different past versions, and another is having a proper
diff. Both these functions are poorly supported by line-based VCS, and the
solution is to use a PO-aware tool atop of a VCS. There is no implication
that this tool must be part of a bigger monolithic program, and much less
that it must be web-based.

> read the source code to understand the context

For real quality translation, this is, and probably will always be,
necessary. What can be done, is to equip the translation editor with good
automatic source reference resolving and display. Again, there is no
implication of a web-based tool here.

> proofread translations on a mailing list

(Didn't understand this, unless part of the following.)

> and waited months for my translations to end up in the product because of
> busy translation managers.

The most review time is taken by -- review. Not by copying the file from
whatever communication channel, not by opening it in editor, not by
committing it. This is probably why I have been hearing the same complaint
in context of web based tools ("I did it in Launchpad months ago, but noone
approved it yet").

It is true that the review process could be made more efficient. But, in my
opinion, the usual approach to this ("the approver") is conceptually the
same regardless of the tool, and that is the main problem in an environment
with fluid contributor time.

-- 
Chusslove Illich (Часлав Илић)


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