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List:       kde-freeqt
Subject:    Re: [freeqt] Open KDE Initiative Proposal
From:       Carl Thompson <cet () elinux ! net>
Date:       1998-12-07 20:23:31
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Avus wrote:
> 
> Open KDE Initiative Proposal
> 
> One of the die-hard prejudices concerning KDE is that it isn't
> 'flexible' enough, with respect to other programming languages, window
> manager, toolkits etc.
> In the current discussion of the main arguments against Qt is that when
> KDE becomes very widespread (some would say de-facto standard), so does
> Qt. And as Qt costs money for proprietary programmes, this may be bad
> for the adoption of Linux in the commercial world. Harmony should
> therefor play the role of a "charity" for shareware authors, to promote
> the market for (cheap) shareware.

The _price_ of software is only a tiny part of what I was saying.  More
important is the amount of _control_ that a proprietary library would give a
single company.  That was always the main focus, not money.

> This idea is based on the wrong assumption  that KDE application == Qt
> application. It's true that KDE itself (libraries, basic applications)
> makes use of Qt, but this will never be a problem as all of this is free
> software.

I would have to say that all true KDE applications are currently QT
applications.  StarOffice does have some small amount of integration with
KDE, but I think it would be much too charitable to call it a KDE
application.  Right now, all KDE applications _are_ QT applications.
 
> KDE compliant applications, however, can of course use other toolkits,
> they only have to follow the KDE standards. Prominent examples are
> StarOffice 5 and the upcoming Wordperfect 8.

I believe that the level of integration that StarOffice shows will not
satisfy users in the long run.  Sure it adds itself to some menus and takes
over some MIME types but it doesn't do the basic things like have its GUI
match that of other KDE apps or even use KWM for its windows.  StarOffice is
an absolutely fantastic application (which I have paid for on both Linux and
Windows) but it is _not_ a KDE application.  If KDE becomes the standard, I
believe in a year or so this level of integration will be unacceptable for
most users who will demand much greater apparent integration.

> The Open KDE Initiative would try to promote those aspects of KDE that
> are not part of the 'standard' distribution, like
> 
> o other KDE compliant window manager than KWM (currently Blackbox)
> o - " - file manager
> o support libs for other toolkits, following the example of K/Tk (for
> TCL/Tk). Especially gtk and V.
> o gtk KDE theme, KDE Pluggable Look&Feel for Java ("Java Swing theme")
> o Corba interaction based on the KOM/OpenParts object model, to be used
> with other toolkits
> o More language bindings for the KDE libs
> 
> The Initiantive could present the already available alternatives on a
> web site for end users, while the developer information would be
> available at developer.kde.org.
> Especially in the case of Corba objects examples and documentation for
> the usage from other toolkits would be very important.
> In addition to that, OpenKDE could define a set of KDE features that a
> programme has to implement to be called KDE compliant.
> 
> Please let me know if this sounds like a sensible suggestion to you.

This sounds like a great idea!  I am already writing patches for another
very good C++ GUI toolkit (FLTK) so that it will integrate with KDE
(including look and feel) and I'd be happy to pool my efforts with yours.  I
guess the main thing would be getting the KDE organization to allow
applications that use alternative toolkits such as FLTK to be "official" KDE
without distinction from applications that use QT.

Please keep us up to date on what happens with your idea...

Thanks,
Carl Thompson

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