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List:       kde-devel
Subject:    Re: RFC: Preview and Interaction
From:       Dawit Alemayehu <adawit () earthlink ! net>
Date:       1999-10-16 0:09:37
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On Fri, 15 Oct 1999, Rik Hemsley wrote:
> #if Dawit Alemayehu
> > > With dcop we should be able to send a signal to kicker/kpanel to say
> > > that the app has mapped its window, and the taskbar entry can be changed
> > > to reflect this.
> > 
> > This is a very good solution, however, you are ignoring the fact that some
> > people could be hiding or even not starting kpanel and/or the task bar.  Then
> > that solution would not work.  That is/was my only problem with that idea. 
> 
> Well, your problem goes away if you consider that:
> 
> * If you're not using the panel, then you're not really using KDE. That's
>   up to the user. You don't use the panel, you don't get 'loading'
>   notifications.
>   
> * If you're not using the taskbar, then that's again your problem. kpanel
>   has the taskbar enabled by default. If you turn it off, you lose an
>   on-screen task list. With my idea, you also lose 'loading' notifications.

Rick,  I am not at all against this solution.  I personally have the panel
always visible and the taskbar hiding in the left corner.   In fact any
solution is better than what we have now in the 1.x which is nothing at all. 

I, however, completely disagree with the reasoning you gave up top. I am sorry
but why does merely hiding the taskbar and/or the kpanel make you a less of a
KDE user ? Not only does KDE provide this option to users, but we proudly
show people how easy it is to do what they want with them.  Everything is that
can and should be configurable is configurable ( choice ).  How then does that
turn into "they are not really using KDE" ????!!!

Let me give some reasons why people might choose to disable/hide the panel
and/or the taskbar.  Think about a user that may switch over from any one of
the window managers out there.  Most of these window managers do not have any
panel and/or taskbar.  Are you then telling me that he/she is not a KDE user by
the mere fact that they chose to hide the things they perceived to be not
necessary to them ?  What about a user, any user, who chooses the option that
KDE supplies in kcontrol to hide either kpanel or the taskbar or both.  Say they
like to have all their apps show in full screen or they are not as fortunate and
cannot afford a good size monitor and need as much of their screen space as
possible ? Then what ?  And why in the world are we supplying options to hide
the panel and the taskbar if we are going to turn around and classify those who
do as not really being KDE users???  Come on Rik, do you really mean this ?  I
hope I misunderstood what you have stated above.  

BTW, I am not trying to flame you or hinder you from the kpanel work at all.
And by no means am I saying that the label under the mouse cursor option is the
best solution.  However, it seems to me to be a better alternative since it will
be there under whatever condition, less of course the user intentionally
disabled it.  Anyways,  I do not see why we cannot have both ?  Turn off which
ever one you do not want.  IMHO that would be a better compromise ...

> Basically, if the user turns things off, that's up to them. We can't force
> any window manager to draw a certain style of border around a transient window,
> only if the user uses kwm will the expected border style be used. > 
> > > As for non-KDE apps, well, who cares ;)
> > Well I think people will.  You will definately get bug reports if it works in
> > only KDE apps.  People would say hey there is not indication when I click on
> > the Netscape Navigator icon ....
> 
> Note the ';)'.

oooops.  That is what happens when you respond to e-mail before coffee :)

> Well as for non-KDE apps, I don't have an immediate solution. I believe
> there used to be (or still is) something called 'xtoolwait' or something,
> that notices when an X window is mapped. Perhaps wrapping up non-KDE apps
> with something simple like this would give the desired effect.

This is a good idea.  I was hoping for just something like this, something in X
that can be hacked to provide some info about feedback....

Regards,
Dawit A.

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