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List:       kde-devel
Subject:    Re: apologies
From:       "Aaron J. Seigo" <aseigo () kde ! org>
Date:       2008-06-13 2:48:10
Message-ID: 200806122048.10504.aseigo () kde ! org
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On Thursday 12 June 2008, Mark A. Taff wrote:
> On Thursday 12 June 2008 00:10:18 Aaron J. Seigo wrote:
> > > we never said anyone was stupid, or that they
> > > spoke without thinking, or weren't capable of reading, or couldn't
> > > develop software, etc, etc.

> Those are *not* direct quotes of me Aaron, as anyone is free to go back and
> see.  The first quote you cite wasn't me.

yes, i know. however, you said "we never said" (see above), so i picked from 
the body of emails "we" wrote.

> Have just a modicum of
> professionalism and attention to detail, would you please?  At least check
> your facts once before publishing.

-1 ... this is the kind of mudslinging that is making it particularly 
challenging for me to deal with you, and some of the others in that thread.

if your goal is to just argue without purpose and piss me off, i guess you've 
got a very efficient system going. if your goal is to arrive at a productive and 
positive end, please consider the impact of these kinds of broadsides upon he 
conversation.

> Also, when you quote, the general rule it to use elipsis to indicate
> removed content, and also not to remove content that changes the meaning of
> the quote.
>
> Here is the full quote for the second:
>
> "The consequences of current plasma are that the masses for whom the
> exisiting Desktop metaphor is highly effective are being told by the deeds
> of the Plasma developers to take long walk off a short pier."

the part i replaced with elipses did not change the emotional context at all 
for me. that was what i was trying to communicate to you. you can say, "i 
didn't mean it that way" but all i can offer in return is "that is exactly how 
it came across on this side".

> And here is the third quote, back in the context you stripped it from:
>
> "[from Michael Hoffer:]
>
> > The KDE/Plasma developers are not the first ones who realize the use
> > of the classical Desktop folder is problematic.
>
> The Plasma devs need to realize that the Plasma desktop is problematic!"

again, i don't see how this changes the claim in any meaningful way.

> And here is the third quote, in full context:
>
> "KDE used to be all about letting you work the way you wanted. ?Now we have
> interface tyrants that want to force users to work the way *they* think is
> the Right Way(tm). ?I've got news for you--I don't give a hoot how *you*
> think I should work. ?I want the freedom to work in a manner that is
> effective for *me*."

yes, you make the point well that you did indeed level a personally offensive 
missive.

> And I did say in my reply to your private email that perhaps my use of the
> word tyrant was a bit too much.

and thanks for meeting me at least that far towards half-way on the matter.

it still doesn't change the fact that it is what you called me and that it 
did, at least for me, very much set the tone in that conversation.

> Aaron, in which one of those quotes did I call anyone stupid?  In which one
> did I say they couldn't code?  Or that they spoke without thinking? Or that
> they weren't capable of reading?  That's right, none of them.

Mark, when i was called a tyrant, that plasma is problematic, that i'm in 
denial etc. that read very directly to me as saying exactly these things.

perhaps you and the others in that thread weren't trying to say those things, 
but it is precisely what got communicated. i'm perfectly willing to accept 
that it was just a large set of failed communication wrapped in rather poorly 
chosen words written with more emtionally charged verbage than it should have 
been ... but it doesn't suddenly justify anything.

i guess at this point i'm looking for a little less "we did nothing wrong!" 
and a little more understanding. it's your choice, and each possible course of 
action has consequences (positive, negative, neutral, a mix...)

-- 
Aaron J. Seigo
humru othro a kohnu se
GPG Fingerprint: 8B8B 2209 0C6F 7C47 B1EA  EE75 D6B7 2EB1 A7F1 DB43

KDE core developer sponsored by Trolltech



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