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List:       kde-devel
Subject:    Re: apologies
From:       "Mark A. Taff" <marktaff () comcast ! net>
Date:       2008-06-13 1:55:59
Message-ID: 200806121855.59694.marktaff () comcast ! net
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On Thursday 12 June 2008 00:10:18 Aaron J. Seigo wrote:
> On Wednesday 11 June 2008, Mark A. Taff wrote:
> > of plasma get attacked by people like Aaron or Michael, it puts us on the
>
> personally i'd appreciate you ceasing the libel. your definition of
> "attack" and "bullying" or not only convenient to your position rather than
> accurate, but fails to put any of the actions you are talking about into
> context.
>
> non-personally, if you insist on continuing this commentary, please have
> the decency to realize that it is off topic for this list and take it
> elsewhere.
>
> >  he intimates that we are "just complaining without
> > trying to understand the consequences of the new idea"
>
> sometimes it's difficult to hear/read something like that, but it doesn't
> mean they aren't right. in this case, the person was pretty close. i'm sure
> you tried to understand the consequences, but the end result was
> confusingly similar to not having put consideration into it.
>
> for me, your knee jerk "nuh-uh!" reactions to things such as the above are
> exactly what frustrated me so much in that conversation.
>
> > we never said anyone was stupid, or that they
> > spoke without thinking, or weren't capable of reading, or couldn't
> > develop software, etc, etc.
>
> let's keep it real, ok? here are some direct quotes:
>
> "No, but you tend to be in denial about issues that need fixing"
> "The consequences of current plasma are that the masses ... are being told
> by the deeds of the Plasma developers to take long walk off a short pier."
> "The Plasma devs need to realize that the Plasma desktop is problematic!"
> "Now we have interface tyrants that want to force users"

Those are *not* direct quotes of me Aaron, as anyone is free to go back and 
see.  The first quote you cite wasn't me.  Have just a modicum of 
professionalism and attention to detail, would you please?  At least check 
your facts once before publishing.

Also, when you quote, the general rule it to use elipsis to indicate removed 
content, and also not to remove content that changes the meaning of the 
quote.

Here is the full quote for the second:

"The consequences of current plasma are that the masses for whom the exisiting 
Desktop metaphor is highly effective are being told by the deeds of the 
Plasma developers to take long walk off a short pier."

And here is the third quote, back in the context you stripped it from:

"[from Michael Hoffer:]
> The KDE/Plasma developers are not the first ones who realize the use
> of the classical Desktop folder is problematic.

The Plasma devs need to realize that the Plasma desktop is problematic!"

And here is the third quote, in full context:

"KDE used to be all about letting you work the way you wanted.  Now we have 
interface tyrants that want to force users to work the way *they* think is 
the Right Way(tm).  I've got news for you--I don't give a hoot how *you* 
think I should work.  I want the freedom to work in a manner that is 
effective for *me*."

I don't have any problem with you trying to use my words against me Aaron, but 
please, make sure they *are* my words.  And please use some integrity when 
you quote, so that you do not change the meaning of the quote, or strip the 
context, and please do indicate removed content.

And I did say in my reply to your private email that perhaps my use of the 
word tyrant was a bit too much.  If I need to, I will post your email to me, 
and my reply, to substantiate that.

Aaron, in which one of those quotes did I call anyone stupid?  In which one 
did I say they couldn't code?  Or that they spoke without thinking? Or that 
they weren't capable of reading?  That's right, none of them.

Regards,

Mark

 
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