[prev in list] [next in list] [prev in thread] [next in thread] 

List:       kde-core-devel
Subject:    Re: System Configure tool
From:       Charles Samuels <charles () kde ! org>
Date:       2001-05-05 21:42:42
[Download RAW message or body]

On Saturday 05 May 2001 02:29 pm, Chris Schlaeger wrote:
> > IMHO there is a lot of substance to what Charles said, not b/c
> > distributors are incompetent but b/c they have their self-interests to
> > consider.  Whereas UNIX of old was severely hampered by API differences,
> > the same will happen to Linux of new with GUI differences, unless this
> > problem is nipped in the bud.
>
> The "no common configuration tool" problem certainly exists and I
> think many of the larger distributors are aware of this. But it is
> also true that installation and configuration tools are their most
> prominent differenciator. So they will stick to their own tools as
> long as distribution reviews consists primarly of installation
> descriptions. Having a single set of configuration tools is
> certainly a good goal.
>
> But wanting these tools to be KDE applications might seem obvious in
> our little KDE world, but neglect the scope of machines Linux covers
> even today. It runs on everything from a wrist watch to an S/390
> mainfraime but KDE only runs on a subset of those. KDE is a desktop
> environment that can be optionally run on a Linux/UNIX
> machine. Bundling the configuration to the GUI would be the same
> mistake that Microsoft has made with windows. There are over 20
> different ways to install or administer a Linux machine. Not even half
> of them require or provide an X11 based install.
However, this isn't Linux specific, and most users that run Linux on a 
wristwatch, or on an S/390 will either not need the ease of use, or will not 
need to configure anything at all, in the first place.

>
> So a common administration suite must also be limited to the least
> common denominator of all Linux systems. This is a text interface or
> even just a simple socket protocol. It's certainly a challeging and
> interesting taks, but for sure not a KDE thing. We might provide a GUI
> interface, but the tools need to there first. Package installers and
> auto-update tools falls into this category as well. They are not a KDE
> thing, they are a distribution thing.
>
> Currently there are only 2 or 3 different administration suits that
> were all developed by distributors. All provide only basic support for
> a client type machine but took already years to develop. The
> distributors have teams of 5 - 20 developers working full-time on them
> and they hardly get it right for their own distribution. All these
> tools are strongly integrated with the distribution and I can only
> encourage everybody who would like to start such a project to have a
> very close look at the *drake, lizzard and YaST2 sources. And also
> look at their mutation over a couple of releases to get a feeling for
> the strong interconnection of the administration tools and the rest of
> the distro.
This basically means that I can only configure the distro that I'm used to. 
I thought I'm using Linux, not SuSE.  SuSE's linux is one thing, but they 
want to do a SuSE which happens to have the linux kernel in there, not that 
it matters.

Also, for the record, just because I link to libqt, doesn't mean I have to 
have a X11 UI to the thing. Quoting from my original email:

"How do I indend to acheive this?  We'll be abstracting both the configure
system, and the user-interface. and both of these components will be
dlopened.  This is to make it possible to have a console version, and a KDE
version, with the same configuration backend."

>
> If you want to take the challenge, go ahead, but you probably won't
> get the manpower you need. Administration tools are a no-fun-job. Look
> at the other postings of this threat and look who's not in favour of
> such a project. Most of them know pretty much what they are talking
> about.

If the distros ever grow up and figure out that none of them will succeed 
unless they all have one config tool, then that's their problem, I'm doing 
this for our users, not theirs.  If they want to use one config tool that 
isn't this one, fine, I will stop development of this immediately, but until 
then, I have a purpose.

-- 
Charles Samuels <charles@kde.org>
K Desktop Environment
"The people. Could you patent the sun?"
 -- Jonas E. Salk, when asked who owned the patent on his polio vaccine.

[prev in list] [next in list] [prev in thread] [next in thread]