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List: kde-community
Subject: Re: Please don't make planet.kde.org into a politics feed
From: Eike Hein <hein () kde ! org>
Date: 2019-12-05 12:56:33
Message-ID: 5693DEDF-3E4F-4EBA-9DD5-0EEA447C0D3A () kde ! org
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Let me try one more time:
- We discussed this before.
- We came up with consensus on a rules compromise.
- We're discussing it again.
- You need to make a strong case why circumstances are different and the outcome of this \
conversation should be different from the established consensus.
- So far you're just repeating arguments.
- None of the arguments are in reference to the documented rules (even though the filter thing, \
which would require categorization by authors, could be written in such a way).
Consensus exists and is documented so we don't repeat debates from square one every time. Doing \
so anyway just because you don't agree with your peers is disrespecting others' time and not \
behavior appropriate for the community list, where we get *together* instead of running our own \
show.
This is particular so because this debate does happen in context of a particular blog post and \
individuals in a community deserve protection from mobs.
Cheers,
Eike
On December 5, 2019 1:47:16 PM GMT+01:00, Laszlo Papp <lpapp@kde.org> wrote:
> No, one particular party's political propaganda (repeatedly) exceeds
> getting to know someone in KDE in my opinion.
>
> Well, with that, if a KDE person does porn, or something else that is
> equally extreme, that could also be getting to know the person behind
> KDE.
>
> I think drawing a false overarching conclusion is wrong. I am calling
> particularly out on Brexit (and maybe political) propaganda. I am
> personally not against reading a cycling trip in Europe (just an
> example
> from the past) which is not so divisive as politics and Brexit in
> particular.
>
> On Thu, Dec 5, 2019 at 12:36 PM Eike Hein <hein@kde.org> wrote:
>
> > If and when the Planet becomes majority political content, that's a
> > problem we can acknowledge and deal with at that time I would say. As
> a
> > community we're smart enough to understand that it's a different
> reality
> > from an occasional post. Let's have that trust.
> >
> > But let me say it again: We discussed this before. The hypothetical
> you've
> > laid out is not a new one. You're not explaining how the situation is
> > different now from back then and why we need to review the consensus
> we
> > already had achieved, which was informed by other thoughts like
> having the
> > Planet be a place where we can get to know each other and the cost of
> > losing a venue for that. The Planet is not a corporate outlet or a
> news
> > feed, it's a community aggregator.
> >
> > Starting a thread because you don't like a particular personal blog
> post
> > is not meeting the necessary bar. Let's not prolong it until you come
> up
> > with something.
> >
> >
> > Cheers,
> > Eike
> >
> >
> >
> > On December 5, 2019 1:26:58 PM GMT+01:00, Christian Loosli <
> > kde@fuchsnet.ch> wrote:
> > >
> > > Am Donnerstag, 5. Dezember 2019, 13:24:30 CET schrieb Eike Hein:
> > >
> > > > But they don't, so your calculation is about solving a problem that
> doesn't
> > > > currently exist.
> > > >
> > >
> > > I consider that a tricky argument that leads to a slippery slope,
> because
> > > whenever people will at political stuff, it will be "but the other
> person was
> > > allowed, too!", so in my opinion it's a matter of fairness.
> > >
> > > Cheers,
> > > > Eike
> > > >
> > >
> > > Kind regards,
> > >
> > > Christian
> > >
> > > On December 5, 2019 1:21:08 PM GMT+01:00, Christian Loosli
> <kde@fuchsnet.ch>
> > > >
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > > For me it's a rather simple calculation: if every contributor on
> planet
> > > > > would
> > > > > post as many articles on politics as e.g. you do, the planet would
> be
> > > > > simply
> > > > > overcrowded with it.
> > > > >
> > > > > Given we already have filters for languages, maybe there could be
> a
> > > > > filter for
> > > > > non-KDE stuff, so that people who to go planet.kde to read about,
> well,
> > > > > KDE,
> > > > > could filter all that stuff out.
> > > > >
> > > > > Kind regards,
> > > > >
> > > > > Christian
> > > > >
> > > > > Am Donnerstag, 5. Dezember 2019, 13:04:35 CET schrieb Jonathan
> Riddell:
> > > > >
> > > > > > Planet KDE exists to allow KDE people to share information about
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > themselves
> > > > >
> > > > > as well as their KDE contributions. A hard Brexit will affect KDE
> > > > > > significantly which is why I include it here. The idea that
> talking
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > about
> > > > >
> > > > > politics is dangerous or anti-social really scares me and is one
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > reason why
> > > > >
> > > > > the populists have taken over so much of the political discussion
> > > > > > currently. I often get people thanking me for my political
> opinion
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > blogs.
> > > > >
> > > > > If you don't want to read it then don't read it.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > The rule we came up with is "The majority of content in your blog
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > should be
> > > > >
> > > > > about KDE and your work on KDE. Blog posts about personal subjects
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > are also
> > > > >
> > > > > encouraged since Planet KDE is a chance to learn more about the
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > developers
> > > > >
> > > > > behind KDE." I've never heard anyone suggest changes to that
> rule.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Jonathan
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On Thu, 5 Dec 2019 at 11:53, Christian Loosli <kde@fuchsnet.ch>
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > Dear Community,
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I'm 100% sure this topic came up in the past due to the same
> blog,
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > but I
> > > > >
> > > > > can't
> > > > > > > find it on the mailing list, so I assume it happened on forums
> or
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > chat:
> > > > >
> > > > > > currently the top blog post on planet.kde.org is about voting for
> a
> > > > > > > specific
> > > > > > > political party. I understand that in these times there are many
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > countries
> > > > >
> > > > > with heated and important political debates, and some very
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > important
> > > > >
> > > > > global
> > > > > > > topics as well. However, these already occupy all the news site.
> > > > > > > Now if every blog appearing on the planet would target a
> political
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > subject
> > > > >
> > > > > that is very important to the blogger, planet.kde.org would be yet
> > > > > > > another
> > > > > > > political news/opinions feed.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > If I want politics, I go to one of these. If I want to read
> about
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > KDE, I
> > > > >
> > > > > go to
> > > > > > > planet.kde.org.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Please dear bloggers: there are categories, and you can choose
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > which of
> > > > >
> > > > > your
> > > > > > > blogs do show up on the planet. I know that some topics are very
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > important
> > > > >
> > > > > to
> > > > > > > you and obviously you are free to blog about them, but please
> keep
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > the
> > > > >
> > > > > planet.kde.org feed free of it, so it doesn't become a mess where
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > it's
> > > > >
> > > > > hard to
> > > > > > > find the content people actually go there for.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Thanks and kind regards,
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Christian
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > --
> > Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
> >
--
Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
[Attachment #3 (text/html)]
<html><head></head><body>Let me try one more time:<br><br>- We discussed this before.<br>- We \
came up with consensus on a rules compromise.<br>- We're discussing it again.<br>- You need to \
make a strong case why circumstances are different and the outcome of this conversation should \
be different from the established consensus.<br>- So far you're just repeating arguments.<br>- \
None of the arguments are in reference to the documented rules (even though the filter thing, \
which would require categorization by authors, could be written in such a \
way).<br><br>Consensus exists and is documented so we don't repeat debates from square one \
every time. Doing so anyway just because you don't agree with your peers is disrespecting \
others' time and not behavior appropriate for the community list, where we get *together* \
instead of running our own show.<br><br>This is particular so because this debate does happen \
in context of a particular blog post and individuals in a community deserve protection from \
mobs.<br><br><br>Cheers,<br>Eike<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On December 5, 2019 1:47:16 PM \
GMT+01:00, Laszlo Papp <lpapp@kde.org> wrote:<blockquote class="gmail_quote" \
style="margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: \
1ex;"> <div dir="ltr">No, one particular party's political propaganda (repeatedly) exceeds \
getting to know someone in KDE in my opinion.<br><div><br></div><div>Well, with that, if a KDE \
person does porn, or something else that is equally extreme, that could also be getting to know \
the person behind KDE.</div><div><br></div><div>I think drawing a false overarching \
conclusion is wrong. I am calling particularly out on Brexit (and maybe political) propaganda. \
I am personally not against reading a cycling trip in Europe (just an example from the past) \
which is not so divisive as politics and Brexit in particular.</div></div><br><div \
class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Thu, Dec 5, 2019 at 12:36 PM Eike Hein \
<<a href="mailto:hein@kde.org">hein@kde.org</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote \
class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid \
rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div>If and when the Planet becomes majority political \
content, that's a problem we can acknowledge and deal with at that time I would say. As a \
community we're smart enough to understand that it's a different reality from an occasional \
post. Let's have that trust.<br><br>But let me say it again: We discussed this before. The \
hypothetical you've laid out is not a new one. You're not explaining how the situation is \
different now from back then and why we need to review the consensus we already had achieved, \
which was informed by other thoughts like having the Planet be a place where we can get to know \
each other and the cost of losing a venue for that. The Planet is not a corporate outlet or a \
news feed, it's a community aggregator.<br><br>Starting a thread because you don't like a \
particular personal blog post is not meeting the necessary bar. Let's not prolong it until you \
come up with something.<br><br><br>Cheers,<br>Eike<br><br><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On \
December 5, 2019 1:26:58 PM GMT+01:00, Christian Loosli <<a href="mailto:kde@fuchsnet.ch" \
target="_blank">kde@fuchsnet.ch</a>> wrote:<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0pt \
0pt 0pt 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"> <pre>Am Donnerstag, 5. \
Dezember 2019, 13:24:30 CET schrieb Eike Hein:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" \
style="margin:0pt 0pt 1ex 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(114,159,207);padding-left:1ex">But \
they don't, so your calculation is about solving a problem that doesn't<br>currently \
exist.<br></blockquote><br>I consider that a tricky argument that leads to a slippery slope, \
because <br>whenever people will at political stuff, it will be "but the other person was \
<br>allowed, too!", so in my opinion it's a matter of fairness. <br><br><blockquote \
class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0pt 0pt 1ex 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid \
rgb(114,159,207);padding-left:1ex">Cheers,<br>Eike<br></blockquote><br>Kind regards, \
<br><br>Christian <br> <br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0pt 0pt 1ex \
0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(114,159,207);padding-left:1ex">On December 5, 2019 1:21:08 PM \
GMT+01:00, Christian Loosli <<a href="mailto:kde@fuchsnet.ch" \
target="_blank">kde@fuchsnet.ch</a>> <br></blockquote>wrote:<br><blockquote \
class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0pt 0pt 1ex 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid \
rgb(114,159,207);padding-left:1ex"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0pt 0pt 1ex \
0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(173,127,168);padding-left:1ex">For me it's a rather simple \
calculation: if every contributor on planet<br>would<br>post as many articles on politics as \
e.g. you do, the planet would be<br>simply<br>overcrowded with it.<br><br>Given we already have \
filters for languages, maybe there could be a<br>filter for<br>non-KDE stuff, so that people \
who to go planet.kde to read about, well,<br>KDE,<br>could filter all that stuff \
out.<br><br>Kind regards,<br><br>Christian<br><br>Am Donnerstag, 5. Dezember 2019, 13:04:35 CET \
schrieb Jonathan Riddell:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0pt 0pt 1ex \
0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(138,226,52);padding-left:1ex">Planet KDE exists to allow KDE \
people to share information about<br></blockquote><br>themselves<br><br><blockquote \
class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0pt 0pt 1ex 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid \
rgb(138,226,52);padding-left:1ex">as well as their KDE contributions. A hard Brexit will affect \
KDE<br>significantly which is why I include it here. The idea that \
talking<br></blockquote><br>about<br><br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0pt 0pt \
1ex 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(138,226,52);padding-left:1ex">politics is dangerous or \
anti-social really scares me and is one<br></blockquote><br>reason why<br><br><blockquote \
class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0pt 0pt 1ex 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid \
rgb(138,226,52);padding-left:1ex">the populists have taken over so much of the political \
discussion<br>currently. I often get people thanking me for my political \
opinion<br></blockquote><br>blogs.<br><br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0pt 0pt \
1ex 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(138,226,52);padding-left:1ex">If you don't want to read it \
then don't read it.<br><br>The rule we came up with is "The majority of content in your \
blog<br></blockquote><br>should be<br><br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0pt 0pt \
1ex 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(138,226,52);padding-left:1ex">about KDE and your work on \
KDE. Blog posts about personal subjects<br></blockquote><br>are also<br><br><blockquote \
class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0pt 0pt 1ex 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid \
rgb(138,226,52);padding-left:1ex">encouraged since Planet KDE is a chance to learn more about \
the<br></blockquote><br>developers<br><br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0pt 0pt \
1ex 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(138,226,52);padding-left:1ex">behind KDE." I've never \
heard anyone suggest changes to that rule.<br><br>Jonathan<br><br>On Thu, 5 Dec 2019 at 11:53, \
Christian Loosli <<a href="mailto:kde@fuchsnet.ch" \
target="_blank">kde@fuchsnet.ch</a>><br></blockquote><br>wrote:<br><blockquote \
class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0pt 0pt 1ex 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid \
rgb(138,226,52);padding-left:1ex"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0pt 0pt 1ex \
0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(252,175,62);padding-left:1ex">Dear Community,<br><br>I'm 100% \
sure this topic came up in the past due to the same blog,<br></blockquote></blockquote><br>but \
I<br><br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0pt 0pt 1ex 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid \
rgb(138,226,52);padding-left:1ex"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0pt 0pt 1ex \
0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(252,175,62);padding-left:1ex">can't<br>find it on the mailing \
list, so I assume it happened on forums \
or<br></blockquote></blockquote><br>chat:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0pt \
0pt 1ex 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(138,226,52);padding-left:1ex"><blockquote \
class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0pt 0pt 1ex 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid \
rgb(252,175,62);padding-left:1ex">currently the top blog post on <a \
href="http://planet.kde.org" target="_blank">planet.kde.org</a> is about voting for \
a<br>specific<br>political party. I understand that in these times there are \
many<br></blockquote></blockquote><br>countries<br><br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" \
style="margin:0pt 0pt 1ex 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid \
rgb(138,226,52);padding-left:1ex"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0pt 0pt 1ex \
0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(252,175,62);padding-left:1ex">with heated and important \
political debates, and some very<br></blockquote></blockquote><br>important<br><br><blockquote \
class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0pt 0pt 1ex 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid \
rgb(138,226,52);padding-left:1ex"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0pt 0pt 1ex \
0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(252,175,62);padding-left:1ex">global<br>topics as well. \
However, these already occupy all the news site.<br>Now if every blog appearing on the planet \
would target a political<br></blockquote></blockquote><br>subject<br><br><blockquote \
class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0pt 0pt 1ex 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid \
rgb(138,226,52);padding-left:1ex"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0pt 0pt 1ex \
0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(252,175,62);padding-left:1ex">that is very important to the \
blogger, <a href="http://planet.kde.org" target="_blank">planet.kde.org</a> would be \
yet<br>another<br>political news/opinions feed.<br><br>If I want politics, I go to one of \
these. If I want to read about<br></blockquote></blockquote><br>KDE, I<br><br><blockquote \
class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0pt 0pt 1ex 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid \
rgb(138,226,52);padding-left:1ex"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0pt 0pt 1ex \
0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(252,175,62);padding-left:1ex">go to<br><a \
href="http://planet.kde.org" target="_blank">planet.kde.org</a>.<br><br>Please dear bloggers: \
there are categories, and you can choose<br></blockquote></blockquote><br>which \
of<br><br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0pt 0pt 1ex 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid \
rgb(138,226,52);padding-left:1ex"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0pt 0pt 1ex \
0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(252,175,62);padding-left:1ex">your<br>blogs do show up on the \
planet. I know that some topics are \
very<br></blockquote></blockquote><br>important<br><br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" \
style="margin:0pt 0pt 1ex 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid \
rgb(138,226,52);padding-left:1ex"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0pt 0pt 1ex \
0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(252,175,62);padding-left:1ex">to<br>you and obviously you are \
free to blog about them, but please \
keep<br></blockquote></blockquote><br>the<br><br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" \
style="margin:0pt 0pt 1ex 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid \
rgb(138,226,52);padding-left:1ex"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0pt 0pt 1ex \
0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(252,175,62);padding-left:1ex"><a href="http://planet.kde.org" \
target="_blank">planet.kde.org</a> feed free of it, so it doesn't become a mess \
where<br></blockquote></blockquote><br>it's<br><br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" \
style="margin:0pt 0pt 1ex 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid \
rgb(138,226,52);padding-left:1ex"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0pt 0pt 1ex \
0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(252,175,62);padding-left:1ex">hard to<br>find the content \
people actually go there for.<br><br>Thanks and kind \
regards,<br><br>Christian<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><br><br><br><br></pre></blockquote></div><br>-- \
<br>Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my \
brevity.</div></blockquote></div> </blockquote></div><br>-- <br>Sent from my Android device \
with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.</body></html>
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