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List:       kde-artists
Subject:    Re: [kde-artists] Bug 163311
From:       James Richard Tyrer <tyrerj () acm ! org>
Date:       2008-06-29 8:01:56
Message-ID: 48674174.1040902 () acm ! org
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Oswald Buddenhagen wrote:
> On Sat, Jun 28, 2008 at 05:15:58PM -0700, James Richard Tyrer wrote:
>> Kenneth Wimer wrote:
>>> Every app can be a third party app depending on which desktop you
>>> prefer.
>> Not my definition of a third party app, so I think that we can agree
>> that the spec needs some clarification.
>>
> you just need to eliminate the nonsensical interpretations yourself,
> then the spec becomes Clear Enough (TM).

Good of you to notice that I was being nonsensical.  I might add that I 
was doing it consciously and deliberately.

> there are basically three kind of applications:
> - core desktop apps that do not make sense outside of their desktop.
>   they can install their icon into the native theme.
>   there isn't more than a handful of such applications per desktop.

Right, like Konqueror?  Where is its icon?  It is installed in HiColor. 
    Doesn't seem correct.

> - generic tools that don't demand branding. every desktop ships them,
>   but they identify themselves with standard icons. gnome is quite
>   consequential about that. kde likes branding, so this class is small
>   in kde. fwiw, now that i think about it, it is in fact silly to
>   standardize any app icons. what should be standardized are the
>   motives, so the apps can provide intuitive, but still branded icons.
>   generally, this is happening anyway.

Right, like Konsole?  Well it has a XDG standard name icon.  So, perhaps 
another utility.  How about Klipper?  Where is its icon?

  In Oxygen which is where you think that it should be.  But, can I run 
Klipper in GNOME?  I haven't tried it but I have the GNOME Character Map 
running on my Panel in KDE3.  Try another example: KSnapShot.  Where is 
it's icon?  Hmmmm.  I find them both in HiColor and in Oxygen.  I 
installed a package of KDE3 Oxygen icons and that is where the Oxygen 
icon came from.  The KDE4 KSnapShot icon is in HiColor.  Which one is 
the menu using?  The Oxygen one. :-|

> - branded apps that can be used everywhere. they *are* 3rd party apps
>   from every other desktop's developer's pov. to make this work
>   reciprocally, they have to be treated as 3rd party apps by the own
>   desktop, too. so ken is right. that simple.

No, that complicated.  While your idea makes some sense, KDE and GNOME 
are part of the OS and as such applications for them are not really 
third party applications.  Microsoft applications for Windows are not 
third party applications, are they?  You seem to agree about this since 
you say that they should be treated like third party applications 
(meaning that they are not actually third party applications).  As some 
wise person once said: 'There is a great deal of difference between 
being treated like a pig and actually being a pig.

Clearly Ken is also correct when he said that we need to develop 
something better.  I can live with the kludge till something better is 
developed as long as it is clear that it is a kludge and not the optimum 
way of doing it.

Since I have already run into problems, I hope that you can see that it 
is a kludge.

>> BTW, what is a second party app.
>>
> there is no such thing. the second party is the user, by whichever
> definition.
> 
On then, what is a first party application?

-- 
JRT
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