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List:       kde-artists
Subject:    Re: [kde-artists] New Oxygen icon "page-zoom"
From:       James Richard Tyrer <tyrerj () acm ! org>
Date:       2008-05-25 22:18:56
Message-ID: 4839E5D0.6050607 () acm ! org
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Jakob Petsovits wrote:
> On Saturday, 24. May 2008, James Richard Tyrer wrote:
>> Jakob Petsovits wrote:
>>> On Friday, 23. May 2008, James Richard Tyrer wrote:
>>>> This icon name isn't in the standard and it does not conform to
>>>>  the standard.  So that probability is very low.
>>> Right, but note that "zoom" is not in the spec as well.
>> Yes, that is correct.  But, KDE will install Oxygen "zoom" if it 
>> exists and then if a third party icon theme is used that doesn't 
>> have "zoom-fit-width" (which isn't in the theme either) we will 
>> have something for fallback.  I'm sorry if that wasn't clear.
> 
> Ok, I try it one last time:
> 
> "zoom-fit-width" should not fall back to "zoom", because "zoom" 
> serves a *different* purpose and is therefore not appropriate as 
> fallback icon.

Actually not.  The action "Zoom Fit Width" is a member if the same set
of actions as "Zoom-in".  Therefore, they should have a common fallback
icon.  If they are not members of the same set then the icons:

	zoom-fit-width
	zoom-fit-height
	zoom-fit-<what_ever>

should have different names.  Specifically, names that do not start with
'zoom'.  That is, if you don't want them to fall back to "zoom" then 
their names should not start with zoom.  This is OK with me, it is you 
that wanted the names to start with 'zoom' and now you don't want the 
logical result of that decision.

> In that case, it's perfectly fine that "zoom-fit-width" doesn't use a
>  fallback,

This is never a good idea.  Not having a fallback should always be
avoided if possible.

> because there *is* no sensible fallback. Without sensible fallback,
> it makes much more sense to use the original icon, not the wrong
> fallback.

> Imagine a toolbar that includes "zoom-in", "zoom-out", and 
> "zoom-original". Using a 3rd party theme that does not include all 
> required icons. What do you want:
> 
> a) The same icon three times from the selected theme: "zoom", "zoom"
>  and "zoom", next to each other.

Yes, that is the theory of the new naming standard and that is how it is
supposed to work.

> b) The original, "unthemed" icons "zoom-in", "zoom-out" and 
> "zoom-original".

I have no idea what you mean.  The "unthemed" icons are HiColor and KDE
refuses to provide HiColor icons.  So, there are no "unthemed" icons to
fallback to.

> We get (a) if I name the zoom tool icon "zoom", 

This seems to be one of your errors.  You are presuming that this is the
"zoom tool" icon.  This is not the case.  This is simply the 'zoom' icon
as I explained and you seem to have snipped out:

	viewmag+	zoom-in
	viewmag-	zoom-out
	vewwmag		zoom

That is not rocket science.  It is the zoom icons.  If you want to have 
an additional icon for "zoom tool", that is perfectly OK with me since 
my point is that we need a 'zoom' icon name because the icons 'viewmag' 
exist.

> and the 3rd party theme provides "zoom" but not
> "zoom-in", "zoom-out" and "zoom-original".

That is correct and that is how it is supposed to work.

> Let me tell you clearly that (a) is unacceptable for me, and will 
> happen over my suspended SVN account. If kdeartwork efforts are going
>  to stall because you can't live with my decision, then so be it. If
>  you manage to work productively with the artists and coders in my 
> place and push me from my oh so high throne as naming coordinator, 
> then so be it.

OK, then do you job.  Coordinator does not mean making arbitrary
decisions.  Actually, I must ask: who gave you this job?  Obviously,
there are two possibilities:

1.	We are peers and my ideas should be held equally with yours.

2.	We have hierarchal management and I I need to talk to your
	immediate supervisor about this.

> But as long as I have a say, I cannot allow a naming scheme that 
> causes incomprehensible action icons where there is a perfectly 
> working alternative scheme (which would be "page-zoom").

You obviously seem to think that you are in charge here.  That is not
how I have clearly been told that things work.  I must ask, who
appointed you?  I ask this because I obviously need to talk to them.

IAC, you have not renamed the icons in KDEArtWork.  This needs to be 
done.  If you don't want me to do it, OK.  But, it needs to be done.

-- 
JRT
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