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List: kde-artists
Subject: Re: K-ARTIST:Cooperation (was: IKons, Slick, crystal, Anti-Icons, ...)
From: antialias <vukman () b2mail ! dk>
Date: 2002-01-20 18:10:03
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Torsten Rahn wrote:
>>1. access > we have to change it and come up with better idea
>>
>
>No, the wheelchair-symbol is a common symbol which is widely used
>for people who have disabilities. If I go into a train or a public location I
>can easily find solutions for disabled persons by looking for that symbol.
>
>Actually the original version for the symbol on this icon was taken from one
>of the major linux-disabilities-sites.
>
As I mentioned earlier:
'The ancient symbol for wheelchair access is a stick figure with a
tadpole's head plopped onto three-quarters of a wheel, with arms that
double as the Tadpoleman's and the wheelchair's. The figure is nominally
white and the ground is blue. It's pretty awful even as a symbol of
specific wheelchair access due to its ugliness and its strange Borg-like
union of Tadpoleman and machine; indeed, the whole shebang looks like
some kind of alien anal probe.'
Beside the fact that the icon is ancient (nothing to do with computers)
and ugly, I think that the symbol is also immoral (not adhering to
ethical or moral principles).
1. We don't need to remind people who are incapacitated by a chronic
illness or injury that they are not healthy
2. People who have bad eyes are invalidated more if we 'put' them in a
wheel chair
3. Icons & symbols which stress disability instead of improved
capability are generally bad-design
Your argument that the wheelchair is a common symbol and widely used is
not an argument. Many bad things in this world are widely used: drugs &
Microsoft Windows, for example ;-)
>>16. filetypes > I don't understand this icon
>>
>
>Any better idea? I mean this whole thing is not about keeping or not keeping.
>It's actually about creating something better (in terms of usability _AND_
>looks :-)
>
I've just stated that I'd hadn't understand this icon :(
Don't take it personally, please. That was just my impression and what I
thought it should be done.
Of couse, you don't need to agree.
I have to remind you that it was you who had said, in one of your
e-mails, that we should improve application icons.
Yes, improve, but which ones? We don't need to improve all of them. But
did YOU told us which ones we should improve or work on? Nope. So, I
tried to give my opinion, and I know that the all thing IS about
creating something better (in terms of usability & looks).
It would be nice if you give us your list of application icons which you
think we should repair, redesign or improve.
>>19. go > hm, many discussions here, I don't like K, I suggest that we
>>remove K, and change wheel to the smae one we have for konqueror and
>>kdevelop
>>
>
>No. This icon leads the user to the world of _KDE_. There's a good reason why
>you have the symbol for "windows", the symbol for "OS/2", the symbol for 'Mac
>OS" on the GUI's. And consistently and for the same PR-related and
>usability-reasons you have the KDE-symbol here.
>Nothing to change here (except for making it look more modern perhaps).
>
OK. What do you think about K like E in Kmail? Not plain as it is now?
Have a look at Vim icon - a little bevel gives better effect. White K is
just too plain and boring.
>
>
>22. hwinfo > change winXP 'i'
>
>Huh? This icon has got NOTHING to do with windows XP. The 'i'-symbol was
>actually there _before_ Windows XP has been _ever_ mentioned. It predates
>Windows XP
>
I didn't say to remove 'i' symbol, I said: remove winXP 'i' symbol which
means that blue circle which looks exactly as in winXP.
But maybe I am wrong (I don't have winXP installed here, so I can't
check it now)
>>23. icons > keep it, but remove 'poststamp' edges
>>
>
>Why? And what exactly does it say without those poststamp-edges?
>
Poststamp edges give it look & feel of an (e)mail application.
Poststamps are associated with mail & post.
What does it say to me if I remove these edges? It can be used as 'icon'
icon.
>
>When searching for a proper symbol for "icons" we really had a tough time to
>come up with something that symbolizes "icon" in a not too abstract way.
>A common 'icon' (i.e. a tiny picture) in the real world is a poststamp.
>
A common 'icon' in the real world is actually a picture from ortodox
church (russian, bulgarian, greek, serbian...) which usually represents
a face of a saint and is very colorful and 'simple'. In computer
language: A small picture intended to represent something (a file,
directory, or action) in a graphical user interface ( a graphic symbol
(usually a simple picture) that denotes a program or a command or a data
file or a concept in a graphical user interface).
I don't see why it should be a poststamp.
You are the boss, you decide.
>>31. kcalc > change it (we need just a calculator, not paper etc.), we
>>have already much better calculator in kspread-mime icon, just take it
>>from there
>>
>
>Hm, but this is the calculator for the KSPREAD-mimetype-icon. if you remove
>the paper underneath - yes, then you get kspread.
>
No, kspread has different type calculator then spreadsheet mimetype
icon. We have three types of
calculators: kcalculator, kspread apps icon, and spreadsheet mimetype
icon. Kspread & spreadsheet mime icon have also euro sign beside & ontop
of the calculator.
>So there's a reason why we
>have different looking calculators. Actually feel free to create a better
>looking calculator for kcalc - but I wouldn't use the kspread one.
>
OK.
>>69. knewsticker > change it, we need a new one
>>
>
>Could you elaborate :-) ?
>
Yes, knode has the same icon and it is beautiful (one of my favourites).
Knode is application, knewsticker is kicker applet, si IMHO knode
should have that icon.
>>88. ksirc > I don't understand the meaning of this icon, ksirc is an IRC
>>client, and 'i' is a symbol for info (in western world), I think it
>>should be changed
>>
>
>It's the symbol for IRC IIRC ;-)
>
>http://www.irc.org ...
>
Yes, but also for info, and that's not good.
antialias
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Torsten Rahn wrote:<br>
<blockquote type="cite" cite="mid:200201201436.35920.tackat@suse.de">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">1. access > we have to change it and come up with better \
idea<br></pre> </blockquote>
<pre wrap=""><!----><br>No, the wheelchair-symbol is a common symbol which is \
widely used <br>for people who have disabilities. If I go into a train or a public \
location I <br>can easily find solutions for disabled persons by looking for that \
symbol.<br><br>Actually the original version for the symbol on this icon was taken \
from one <br>of the major linux-disabilities-sites.<br></pre> </blockquote>
As I mentioned earlier:<br>
'The ancient symbol for wheelchair access is a stick figure with a tadpole's
head plopped onto three-quarters of a wheel, with arms that double as the
Tadpoleman's and the wheelchair's. The figure is nominally white and the
ground is blue. It's pretty awful even as a symbol of specific wheelchair
access due to its ugliness and its strange Borg-like union of Tadpoleman
and machine; indeed, the whole shebang looks like some kind of alien anal
probe.' <br>
<br>
Beside the fact that the icon is ancient (nothing to do with computers) and
ugly, I think that the symbol is also immoral (not adhering to ethical or
moral principles). <br>
1. We don't need to remind people who are incapacitated by a chronic illness
or injury that they are not healthy <br>
2. People who have bad eyes are invalidated more if we 'put' them in a wheel
chair <br>
3. Icons & symbols which stress disability instead of improved capability
are generally bad-design<br>
<br>
Your argument that the wheelchair is a common symbol and widely used is not
an argument. Many bad things in this world are widely used: drugs & Microsoft
Windows, for example ;-)<br>
<br>
<pre wrap=""></pre>
<blockquote type="cite" cite="mid:200201201436.35920.tackat@suse.de">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">16. filetypes > I don't understand this icon<br></pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap=""><!----><br>Any better idea? I mean this whole thing is not about \
keeping or not keeping. <br>It's actually about creating something better (in terms \
of usability _AND_ <br>looks :-)</pre> </blockquote>
I've just stated that I'd hadn't understand this icon :( <br>
Don't take it personally, please. That was just my impression and what I
thought it should be done.<br>
Of couse, you don't need to agree. <br>
I have to remind you that it was you who had said, in one of your e-mails,
that we should improve application icons.<br>
Yes, improve, but which ones? We don't need to improve all of them. But did
YOU told us which ones we should improve or work on? Nope. So, I tried to
give my opinion, and I know that the all thing IS about creating something
better (in terms of usability & looks).<br>
It would be nice if you give us your list of application icons which you
think we should repair, redesign or improve.<br>
<blockquote type="cite" cite="mid:200201201436.35920.tackat@suse.de">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">19. go > hm, many discussions here, I don't like K, I \
suggest that we<br>remove K, and change wheel to the smae one we have for konqueror \
and<br>kdevelop<br></pre> </blockquote>
<pre wrap=""><!----><br>No. This icon leads the user to the world of \
_KDE_. There's a good reason why <br>you have the symbol for "windows", the symbol \
for "OS/2", the symbol for 'Mac <br>OS" on the GUI's. And consistently and for the \
same PR-related and <br>usability-reasons you have the KDE-symbol here.<br>Nothing to \
change here (except for making it look more modern perhaps).</pre> </blockquote>
OK. What do you think about K like E in Kmail? Not plain as it is now?<br>
Have a look at Vim icon - a little bevel gives better effect. White K is
just too plain and boring.<br>
<blockquote type="cite" cite="mid:200201201436.35920.tackat@suse.de">
<pre wrap=""><br><br>22. hwinfo > change winXP 'i'<br><br>Huh? This \
icon has got NOTHING to do with windows XP. The 'i'-symbol was <br>actually there \
_before_ Windows XP has been _ever_ mentioned. It predates <br>Windows XP</pre> \
</blockquote> I didn't say to remove 'i' symbol, I said: remove winXP 'i' symbol \
which means that blue circle which looks exactly as in winXP.<br>
But maybe I am wrong (I don't have winXP installed here, so I can't check
it now)<br>
<blockquote type="cite" cite="mid:200201201436.35920.tackat@suse.de">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">23. icons > keep it, but remove 'poststamp' \
edges<br></pre> </blockquote>
<pre wrap=""><!----><br>Why? And what exactly does it say without \
those poststamp-edges?</pre> </blockquote>
Poststamp edges give it look & feel of an (e)mail application. Poststamps
are associated with mail & post.<br>
What does it say to me if I remove these edges? It can be used as 'icon'
icon.
<blockquote type="cite" \
cite="mid:200201201436.35920.tackat@suse.de"> <pre wrap=""><br>When searching for a \
proper symbol for "icons" we really had a tough time to <br>come up with something \
that symbolizes "icon" in a not too abstract way.<br>A common 'icon' (i.e. a tiny \
picture) in the real world is a poststamp. </pre> </blockquote>
A common 'icon' in the real world is actually a picture from ortodox church
(russian, bulgarian, greek, serbian...) which usually represents a face of
a saint and is very colorful and 'simple'. In computer language: A small
picture intended to represent something (a file, directory, or action) in
a graphical user interface ( a graphic symbol (usually a simple picture)
that denotes a program or a command or a data file or a concept in a graphical
user interface).<br>
I don't see why it should be a poststamp.<br>
You are the boss, you decide.<br>
<blockquote type="cite" \
cite="mid:200201201436.35920.tackat@suse.de"> <blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">31. kcalc > change it (we need just a \
calculator, not paper etc.), we<br>have already much better calculator in \
kspread-mime icon, just take it<br>from there<br></pre> </blockquote>
<pre wrap=""><!----><br>Hm, but this is the calculator for \
the KSPREAD-mimetype-icon. if you remove <br>the paper underneath - yes, then you get \
kspread. </pre> </blockquote>
No, kspread has different type calculator then spreadsheet mimetype icon.
We have three types of<br>
calculators: kcalculator, kspread apps icon, and spreadsheet mimetype icon.
Kspread & spreadsheet mime icon have also euro sign beside & ontop
of the calculator.<br>
<br>
<blockquote type="cite" \
cite="mid:200201201436.35920.tackat@suse.de"> <pre wrap="">So there's a reason why \
we <br>have different looking calculators. Actually feel free to create a better \
<br>looking calculator for kcalc - but I wouldn't use the kspread one.</pre> \
</blockquote> OK.<br>
<blockquote type="cite" \
cite="mid:200201201436.35920.tackat@suse.de"> <blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">69. knewsticker > change it, we need a \
new one<br></pre> </blockquote>
<pre wrap=""><!----><br>Could you elaborate :-) ?</pre>
</blockquote>
Yes, knode has the same icon and it is beautiful (one of my favourites).<br>
Knode is application, knewsticker is kicker applet, si IMHO knode should
have that icon.<br>
<blockquote type="cite" \
cite="mid:200201201436.35920.tackat@suse.de"> <blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">88. ksirc > I don't understand the \
meaning of this icon, ksirc is an IRC<br>client, and 'i' is a symbol for info (in \
western world), I think it<br>should be changed<br></pre> </blockquote>
<pre wrap=""><!----><br>It's the symbol for IRC \
IIRC ;-)<br><br><a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" \
href="http://www.irc.org">http://www.irc.org</a> ...</pre> </blockquote>
Yes, but also for info, and that's not good.<br>
<br>
antialias<br>
<blockquote type="cite" \
cite="mid:200201201436.35920.tackat@suse.de"></blockquote> <br>
</body>
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