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List:       dng
Subject:    Re: [DNG] What do you guys like about Desktop Environments?
From:       Martin Steigerwald <martin () lichtvoll ! de>
Date:       2023-12-23 15:58:32
Message-ID: 2788544.BEx9A2HvPv () lichtvoll ! de
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Hi Steve.

Steve Litt - 23.12.23, 13:51:01 CET:
> Other than drag and drop, I'm trying to figure out why some people
> prefer using a Desktop Environment over just a Window Manager and a
> bunch of a-la-carte applications. So two questions:
> 
> 1) What benefits do you see besides drag and drop?

Consistent look and feel. It is all nicely integrated with one another. 
Regarding Plasma and KDE: The ability to configure it the way I like it. I 
can make it mine. Usually without editing configuration files. I edit a lot 
of configuration files on servers which I never install with a GUI since I 
last set up an X2go machine. But for desktop applications I just like to 
use them and customize without reading heaps of manuals for configuration 
options just by using my intuition on where to find settings. And they are 
all structured similarly in KDE applications. For example my main Plasma 
desktop does not have a visible toolbar anywhere. It has several, but they 
are all hidden and certain screen borders. So I have complete screen 
estate for application windows.

<blatant marketing for activities>

I do use activities in Plasma. Like when I write on an article or book, I 
have all applications needed for that open in an activity. Like Dolphin in 
the right directory, Kate with a suitable project which contains all the 
necessary files, Okular to view the rendered PDF, things like that, Konsole 
as command line. If I like to engage in the activity I open it and Plasma 
opens all the stuff. All the windows at the position I left them, Kate with 
exactly the file I edited last, the cursor exactly at the location I left 
it, Okular with the PDF at exactly the page I viewed before. And once I am 
done I close the activity and Plasma saves the state of all the windows 
and applications to open them at a later time again. It is awesome. 
Unfortunately it does not really work with non KDE applications. For 
example Firefox would open again, but it has forgotten the tabs I had 
open. However all the KDE applications restore exactly as I left them. 
They needed quite some time to get activities right, but meanwhile I don't 
even know how and why I used a computer without that feature. I bet still 
quite some people are not even really aware of that gem in KDE. I do have 
some activities open at all times, like a communication activity for mail 
and messenger, a play area for games, a system area with Konsole for shell 
access, and an information area with RSS reader, however that overlaps a 
bit with the communication activity. All of them have different back drop 
images so I immediately recognize them.

Even completion order in KRunner and in KDE apps adapts to activities with 
settable privacy settings on how long to keep any history, per activity of 
course. Also of course all of this is just stored locally.

</blatant marketing for activities>

I also like the window manager KWin. Lower screen border opens composite 
with all windows, I can search a window with keyboard or quickly select 
the right one with mouse. It even has some nice touches of a tiling window 
manager with some kind of automatism in there.  When snapping windows into 
an area of the screen by dragging them to a border of the screen it takes 
into account another snapped window. When I move the window border next to 
the other window it adapts the other window as well. For example I have 
two windows side by side. If I make the left window larger at the right 
side, KWin automatically adjusts the right window accordingly. It does not 
yet work perfectly in all circumstances, but it is a new really neat 
touch.

Upper border has quick access to activities. Left border on main screen 
which is the laptop screen has window list, application menu and some 
applets like clock and the usual systray stuff. I rarely use the 
application menu. Starting an application is just Alt-Space, type three 
chars, enter, done. Auto complete can use some improvements like the 
ability to select an order of completion sources, however that has been 
implemented for the upcoming Plasma 6 already.

I have to admit, their marketing slogan "simple by default, powerful when 
needed" is to the point. If you just open a Plasma session and click 
around for a little bit you are not likely to discover more than 5% of the 
sheer power hidden beneath. That might be a bit of an issue for new users: 
Not all of those great features are in plain sight.

> 2) How important is drag and drop in the way you use your computer?

I use it often enough. Between Dolphin windows. To put a file as attachment 
into a mail I write. To drag a screenshot as attachment into a mail 
without saving it into a file first. Things like that. As I just tested I 
can even drag a mail into the mail composer window of KMail and it 
automatically adds it as an attachment. That why I can forward a bunch of 
selected mails quickly and easily.

Just yesterday I marked a bunch of files from different directories in 
Dolphin and told it to make a ZIP archive. I also love how I can just 
press F4 in Dolphin to have a terminal embedded. Often enough when I like 
to move certain files whose filenames match a pattern, I just press Alt-F4 
and type a "mv" command in there. Dolphin has a function for that, but I 
am quickly by command line, probably cause I did not look up the hot key 
for the pattern matching function. Or press F3 for a Midnight Command like 
second pane in the current window.

I think it is similar to how I always worked since I started using an 
Amiga. In AmigaOS you can drag and drop as well, often quite neatly so. 
They called the GUI in AmigaOS Intuition. For a reason. As I received my 
first Amiga, an Amiga 500 with 512 KiB of RAM and one disk drive, I was 
able to figure most of how to use it out without even reading the manual. 
And mind you it was the first computer I used that had a mouse in addition 
to the keyboard (and joysticks) as input device. The manuals were really 
nice addition as I dug deeper into command line access. They had really 
fine and quite complete professionally printed manuals back then.

I love complex command calls and command line access. But I also love the 
ability to just intuitively use a computer and have things work like I 
expect them to. Plasma / KDE application match that quite close and I 
often enough can adapt it where needed. Both ways of using a computer have 
their use cases.

That has been a long writing. Maybe it transports some of why I use a 
desktop environment and some of why I use Plasma and KDE applications. I 
do use some other applications. I am not happy with the state of web 
browsers, but I mostly use Firefox cause I still can adapt it best to my 
privacy needs. And for work I use Evolution for mail, cause it can cope 
better with Microsoft 365 (not my choice and I am certainly not a fan of 
it) and in general is a quite fine and stable mail client. More stable than 
KMail or well… Akonadi. KDEPIM is still a pain point with KDE and I think 
mostly due to Akonadi. That is why I usually install Thunderbird for other 
users. Its not perfect either, but at least it works more stable. On the 
other hand I still use KMail myself. I have more than a million of mails 
in more than 100 folders in there. Several accounts as well.

Ciao,
-- 
Martin


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