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List:       kwin
Subject:    Re: new default keyboard shortcut proposal
From:       Lucas Murray <lmurray () undefinedfire ! com>
Date:       2009-02-14 3:13:15
Message-ID: f09827650902131913m4eceee3cycd769fbf3b38a1f7 () mail ! gmail ! com
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On Sat, Feb 14, 2009 at 8:35 AM, Andrew Dorrell
<andrew.dorrell@gmail.com> wrote:
> FWIW http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Table_of_keyboard_shortcuts
> demonstrated quite a mix of conventions IMHO.  It would be nice to have
> a DE with a single consistent convention.

My dream convention would be to have all WM and workspace-related
global shortcuts to always use Alt+[Shift+]<Anything>. That allows
applications to be able to use localized Ctrl+[Shift+]<Anything> and
Meta+[Shift+]<Anything> and global Ctrl+Meta+[Shift+]<Anything>
without fear of conflict.

The problem is that we can't actually do this with any popular DE such
as KDE as so many people are used to the extremely odd and
inconsistent shortcuts already in use. =(

> Andrew Dorrell wrote:
>> It is always nice if there is some clear (from a user perspective)
>> convention with shortcuts - rather than the first in best dressed
>> style approach.  I agree it can be a real problem finding good
>> shortcuts to use in apps; but I agree that using the cursor keys to
>> navigate vitual desktops improves on using function keys.  Some points
>> (most would have considered but lets just state them):
>>
>> 1. Ctrl+key is used a lot by applications.  Perhaps WM and DE
>> components should completely avoid.
>> 2. Alt+key is used as a shortcut to application menus though Alt+tab
>> is universally accepted as an application swtcher and shortcuts like
>> Alt+Space have also become familiar to some for WM tasks relating to
>> the currently active window.
>> 2. Ctrl+Alt+key is used for "dangerous"/"system" tasks such as reset,
>> kill X, and other tasks that intimidate less confident users (and
>> provide a playground for confident users) such as switching virtual
>> consoles (linux)
>> 3. Meta is now mostly associated with the system menu (friendly).
>> It's inclusion on PC keyboards is also relatively recent so there is
>> no established practice for including it in application shortcuts.
>>
>> My naive suggestion would be that:
>>
>> - DE (and plasma) limit themselves to Meta+key shortcuts.  So for
>> example, virtual desktop switching would be Meta+cursor or
>> Meta+shift+cursor (see below); activity switching may be Meta+Fn (for
>> example).
>>
>> - Ctrl+Alt+key is used purely for "system" tasks such as shutting down
>> etc... I think a user friendly DE would avoid using Ctrl+Alt+key
>> because the cost of a typo is potentially high (e.g. killing X vs
>> logging out).  Should not be available for applications;  Should
>> provide an alternative to Meta where the keyboard is missing this key
>> only (for DE/WM shortcuts).
>>
>> - Fn keys, Ctrl+key and Alt+<character-key> should be reserved for use
>> by applications.  Some global conventions exist and should be pursued
>> via UI guidelines (and provided by default in application templates)
>> but otherwise each application should have the ability to use these
>> shortcuts without interference.
>>
>> Alt+<any key corresponding to a non-printable character> such as Tab
>> and other navigation keys should be fair gain for providing WM shortcuts.
>>
>> - Ctrl+Shft+key and Alt+Shft+key are as above but IMHO should be used
>> sparingly and if used should augment or provide an "advanced"
>> variation on the function associated with the corresponding Ctrl+key
>> and Alt+key.  So for example, while the application menu is triggered
>> by Alt it would be consistent to trigger the applications window menu
>> using Alt+Shift (instead of the Alt+space familiar to windows users).
>> One variation to this is useful: Alt+tab should be augmented with a
>> Meta version - so Meta+Tab should be reserved for application
>> switching, perhaps via a secondary switcher (such as present windows).
>>
>>
>> BTW I'd love to have a global convention for switching between tabs in
>> tabbed applications.  In this case the cursor keys are difficult -
>> because shortcuts that use them are already common in support of
>> navigation within the applicattion's view.  But if Alt+left/right
>> could be spared it would be really a nice thing to have.  My world
>> would also have:
>> - Alt+shft+cursor toggling resize of the window so that the edge
>> pointed to was pushed to the corresponding screen boundary;
>> - Alt+shft+Space toggle maximise;
>> - Alt+shft+Del to close the window;
>> - minimise has interaction with DE so this deserves careful
>> consideration.  I'd want a shortcut that minimised the current
>> application window and transferred focus to the task-bar (if there is
>> one); then navigate the task bar with cursor; raise and return focus
>> to an application with Enter (or Alt+Enter).  Given that usage model
>> I'd suggest Alt+Enter as the minimise shortcut.  Pressing Alt+Enter
>> twice should minimise then return the currently active window.
>>
>>
>> Oh, and as it becomes possible to do more things in the WM/DE an undo
>> function becomes increasingly interesting - Meta+z ;-)  Just some
>> extra wishes to entertain...
>>
>> </opinion>
>>
>> Thanks for reading.
>>
>>
>> Andrew Stromme wrote:
>>> The first thing I do on any KDE desktop is turn on arrow key switching for
>>> virtual desktops. It is so much more spatially consistent (I use a desktop
>>> grid 2x2) than the f[1-4] keys. And I've yet to find a collision with a KDE
>>> app. /shrug. I say +1 for default to alt-ctrl-arrow keys.
>>>
>>> Andrew Stromme
>>>
>>>
>>> On Friday 13 February 2009 11:26:47 Andreas Pakulat wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 13.02.09 10:27:39, Roman Shtylman wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Currently there is no default keyboard shortcut to switch desktops
>>>>> left, right, up, down. I like to bind ctrl+alt+<left arrow>|<right
>>>>> arrow> to navigate desktops. Wondering if those would be good
>>>>> keybindings to set as default for that action?
>>>>>
>>>> IMNSHO: No. There are already default shortcuts to switch to the first 4
>>>> desktops. Adding yet another set of mostly redundant global shortcuts means
>>>> stealing them from any app. There are apps out there that need more than a
>>>> handful of app-shortcuts and theey already have a hard time now to find
>>>> good non-used ones.
>>>>
>>>> Andreas
>>>>
>>>
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>>>
>>
>
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-- 

Lucas Murray :: http://www.undefinedfire.com
GPG Fingerprint: 0B88 499E 3F5B 1405 D952  258A AD90 B4F5 90B6 3534
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