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List:       kde-usability
Subject:    Re: Fwd: [Bug 59940] New: Adoption of dotNET
From:       Waldo Bastian <bastian () kde ! org>
Date:       2003-06-25 13:08:58
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Very well said David, I fully agree.

Cheers,
Waldo

On Wednesday 25 June 2003 14:57, David Legg wrote:
> I've avoided replying to this thread because I think it's a bit
> pointless, but I have because I care about how KDE presents itself to
> the outside world. (You can actually make KDE look how you like, you
> know).
>
> On Tuesday 17 June 2003 14:42, Thiago Macieira wrote:
> > The dotNET and MKUltra combination provide a simple, slim, sleek and
> > responsive desktop experience. Keramic, on the other hand, is bulky,
> > bulgy, ugly, distractful and completely unresponsive not mention it's
> > awful displacements of widgets in application windows, like Konqueror.
> > Keramic is the cause of KDE's present noteriety for it's ugly user
> > interface, which is totally false especially if the dotNET and MKUltra
> > combination had been adopted as KDE's defualt.
>
> These are comments entirely based on opinions, and when it comes to
> default settings in KDE I think we need to steer clear of individual
> opinions. I don't use Keramik, and, personally, I don't like it (I just
> can't use it!), but it is a theme that does a good job of promoting KDE
> to the outside world and attracting people to it. I would say the types
> of comments above just sound like a marketing campaign to get someone
> else's theme as the default, if I was being cynical. That is something
> we need to avoid.
>
> On Mon, 23 Jun 2003 19:02:27 +0200, Simon Edwards wrote:
> > Wait a minute, people have been complaining that KDE looks ugly for
> > years now, most of that time Keramic hadn't even been created yet.
> > Keramic was basically created to be a modern "graphically designed"
> > replacement for the traditional KDE look (KDE High Colour style).
>
> I agree with Simon here. The problem with previous versions of KDE, in
> many peoples' eyes, was the flat, boring default theme. That was great
> if you wanted that, but it didn't do a great job of inspiring enthusiasm
> and interest in KDE, especially when it got reviewed. KDE was notorious
> for having a boring, ugly and flat default theme. Now that has been
> rectified some people are weighing in with comments of Keramik being
> boring and ugly, and proposing that it be replaced. We can't have it all
> ways.
>
> > Now, having looked at MKUltra and dotNet, I must honestly say that
> > MKUltra is disaster w.r.t. usability (controls are in the wrong
> > position, are too small and don't even look 'clickable') and dotNet
> > style also has usability problems but most of all, good old fashioned
> > KDE High Colour style is just a more refined 3D style.
>
> I do like MKUltra, and it's a great theme in that everything is very
> simple, striking and clear visually, although it takes some getting used
> to. However, I don't think it's right for the default theme for KDE as
> it's a bit more of a 'specialist' taste, and most people will just be
> confused by it, especially those new to KDE. I don't think the controls
> are in the wrong place, but they are definitely in places that most
> people wouldn't expect. If MKUltra can be, or is, included as part of
> KDE then that's fine, but it shouldn't be the default theme.
>
> On the other hand, I don't know where on earth the suggestion for dotNet
> came from and on what basis it was made. For a start it's called
> dotNet(?), and it merely looks the same as the old default KDE High
> Colour theme (which you can still use), amongst others, which was
> replaced as the default KDE theme by Keramic because people complained
> that the old theme was ugly and boring! Really, there are ten dozen
> other themes exactly like dotNET and it shouldn't even be included with
> KDE, never mind made the default theme. Alloy does a much better job,
> and is much more popular on kde-look then dotNet. I'm switching between
> them and using dotNet and the high colour theme as I write this, and the
> high colour and Alloy themes do a much more refined and minimalistic 3D
> job. I agree with Simon that the dotNet theme is way too
> two-dimensional. The supposed performance advantages for dotNet are
> overrated, as the KDE High Colour theme does just as good a job if not
> better. If you want to use this then you are more than free to do so,
> but the default theme - that's something different.
>
> Keramik is by no means perfect. There is a bit of a lack of a '3D feel'
> when clicking on widgets (lack of 3D movement), especially the buttons,
> and sometimes it doesn't feel as if you've clicked on anything. The
> widgets are something that do need to be changed or re-designed in
> Keramic. The default colour scheme and the window decoration is perhaps
> a bit too much on the eyes, which is something I have heard from users
> at work, and I think the Keramic Blue theme is a good improvement in
> that respect. I do like the new animated Keramik theme (animated scroll
> bars) and will help promote KDE's image even more. After all, the Mac
> has them. Liquid style menus would also be nice.
>
> We should get behind Keramic and try and enhance and improve it. It is a
> theme that does a great overall job of marketing KDE to people who
> haven't seen KDE before, although it isn't necessarily the most usable
> theme in the world on a day-to-day basis at the moment. With some work
> and some incorporations such as those from the Keramic Blue and animated
> themes, I think that will change. It's main job is to make KDE look cool
> and attractive to the outside world. If you want to change it and use
> something else, then that's great, but I don't think that some peoples'
> idea of a default theme should be imposed on other people. The default
> theme can't keep being changed because some people think they've found
> something cooler and better on kde-look.
>
> Is this actually being considered?
>
> David

- -- 
bastian@kde.org -=|[ SuSE, The Linux Desktop Experts ]|=- bastian@suse.com
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