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List:       kde-panel-devel
Subject:    Minutes Monday Plasma Hangout
From:       Sebastian =?UTF-8?B?S8O8Z2xlcg==?= <sebas () kde ! org>
Date:       2017-09-18 11:12:17
Message-ID: 3888318.83Y4LCSJsW () miro
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Meeting minutes and log from today's weekly: accessiblity, wayland,
design, it has all the goodies.
-- 
sebas

http://www.kde.org | http://vizZzion.org

Plasma Meeting 18 Sept 2017

Present: notmart, Sho, d_ed, sebas, jensreut, fvogt

notmart:
* At randa meeting, was mostly about accessibility
** krunner
** kirigami
** keyboard navigation in systray applet
** systemsettings: still kinda wip, big problem is QQuickWidget and keyboard focus \
                handling
* plasma mobile:
** fixed a generic wayland bug in which the desktop window isn't always a "desktop \
                type" surface
** fixed wonky press-and-hold drag and drop issue which lead to drags never being \
                canceled and crashes
** fixed task manager window appearing in the task manager itself, which also fixed a \
                crash
** progressing over the improved top draggable panel
* most of the accessibility work is about good keyboard navigation, which is always a \
good improvement regardless of screen readers, so for any user

Sho:
* Wayland testing/debugging for d_ed, trying to get my session to behave again
* Prepping to move the Kicker backend to plasma-desktop so Plasma Mobile can depend \
                on it
** I want to port the homescreen to it
* QtWS coordination, another sit-down with Jens today
* Implemented text selection in the Qt Quick rewrite of Konversation (a big challenge \
as Qt Quick can't do text selection across multiple Text elements normally - really \
                happy with the results, feels very natural, might blog about it)
* On vacation Tue-Fr to focus on Konversation, but around for QtWS stuff + beta \
bugfixing if needed

d_ed:
 - Accessibility everywhere.
 - Mostly keyboard nav, adding Accessible props.
 - WIP patch to keyboard focus panel
 - Made Orca work on wayland \o/
More importantly
 - Got lots of scaling feedback. Splitting some settings where users want different \
                things in X and wayland.
 - Fixed an issue with scaling + cursor icon hotspots
 - Found a kwayland race that I'm currently fixing :/

sebas:
- Coordinated and got out Plasma Mobile / Purism press release, was well received, \
                crowdfunding went from <300K to >450K over the weekend \o/
- Worked a bit on kscreen not saving the output scaling value, more work on that
- Half blog written about convergence, want to finish within the first part of this \
week

kbroulik:
* Fixed some bugs in FolderView, modifier drags (ie. Ctrl+Shift+drag for creating a \
                link without popup confirmation) works now
* Investigated a crash in Qt with XLIB_SKIP_ARGB_VISUALS when creating ARGB windows \
(e.g. tooltips in Breeze/Oxygen), patch https://codereview.qt-project.org/#/c/205268/ \
                (already +2'd \o/)
* Tried to figure out why KSplash on Wayland is misplaced in multiscreen setup but \
                couldn't figure it out. Geometry send to plasmashell surface is \
                correct..
* Some minor startup performance improvements for Dolphin
* Some minor improvements for Kate

jensreut:
We've been talking a bit about a secondary stock theme - essentially taking a well \
established but "non committed" theme and then trying to get that and its cretors \
into Incubator. Core idea is improving another theme in tandem - while at the same \
time sneaking contributors into KDE proper. We started the "great splitting of tasks" \
in the VDG Fabian has as I am sure many of you know gone to town on the HIG and \
specifically "making the unit page make sense" Jack (the GTK guy) is working on \
improving our GTK theme as usual and may have som questions about CSD's and how we \
should deal with them Andrew will work on improving our mockup toolkit and Alex will \
help create a Kirigami one (IIRC) We talked a bit about making certain that mockups \
that are just mockups are shown as clear as possible that they ARE mockups so \
hopefully those kinds of problems will be avoided

fvogt:
I guess I've only got to mention the bug about 4k on virtio that started appearing \
about a week ago or so (https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=384789)
KDE bug 384789 in KScreen (libkscreen) "Wrong screen size reported with qemu and \
virtio" [normal,] https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=384789



The Log:

[12:04:37] <sebas> Meeting indeed!
[12:04:45] <sebas> so, notmart, Sho_, d_ed, jensreut?
[12:04:48] --> Martchus (~martchus@dslb-178-002-246-109.178.002.pools.vodafone-ip.de) \
has joined #plasma [12:04:54] <sebas> kbroulik of course
[12:04:56] <Sho_> yep i'm here
[12:05:06] <sebas> notmart to start!
[12:05:19] <notmart> ok
[12:05:20] <d_ed> o/
[12:05:24] <sebas> \o
[12:05:26] <d_ed> and fvogt_vps ^
[12:05:33] <sebas> hey fvogt_vps!
[12:05:57] <Sho_> hello my favorite software devs
[12:06:21] <notmart> ok, kinda finished the list
[12:06:24] <notmart> * At randa meeting, was mostly about accessibility
[12:06:25] <notmart> ** krunner
[12:06:27] <notmart> ** kirigami
[12:06:28] <notmart> ** keyboard navigation in systray applet
[12:06:30] <notmart> ** systemsettings: still kinda wip, big problem is QQuickWidget \
and keyboard focus handling [12:06:31] <notmart> * plasma mobile:
[12:06:33] <notmart> ** fixed a generic wayland bug in which the desktop window isn't \
always a "desktop type" surface [12:06:34] <notmart> ** fixed wonky press-and-hold \
drag and drop issue which lead to drags never being canceled and crashes [12:06:36] \
<notmart> ** fixed task manager window appearing in the task manager itself, which \
also fixed a crash [12:06:37] <notmart> ** progressing over the improved top \
draggable panel [12:07:03] --> cotko (~ahmed@188-230-161-23.dynamic.t-2.net) has \
joined #plasma [12:07:05] <notmart> * most of the accessibility work is about good \
keyboard navigation, which is always a good improvement regardless of screen readers, \
so for any user [12:07:28] <Sho_> how was "[19:06] <notmart> ** fixed task manager \
window appearing in the task manager itself, which also fixed a crash" fixed? didn't \
see this around [12:07:48] <notmart> Sho_: in the plasma mobile task manager, not the \
normal taskbar [12:08:05] <Sho_> ah
[12:08:09] <notmart> basically was the fullscreen window it appears in to not have \
skip_taskbar correctly set on wayland [12:08:09] <Sho_> missed the heading
[12:08:17] <Sho_> ok
[12:08:33] <notmart> for the usual (doh, now surfaces are deleted every time qt 5.8 \
gotcha) [12:09:18] <jensreut> (sry for late toilet rush)
[12:09:46] <sebas> haha
[12:09:50] <sebas> okay, Sho_'s turn
[12:10:16] <Sho_> * Wayland testing/debugging for d_ed, trying to get my session to \
behave again [12:10:17] <-> toscalix_ is now known as toscalix
[12:10:17] <Sho_> * Prepping to move the Kicker backend to plasma-desktop so Plasma \
Mobile can depend on it [12:10:19] <Sho_> ** I want to port the homescreen to it
[12:10:20] <Sho_> * QtWS coordination, another sit-down with Jens today
[12:10:22] <Sho_> * Implemented text selection in the Qt Quick rewrite of \
Konversation (a big challenge as Qt Quick can't do text selection across multiple \
Text elements normally - really happy with the results, feels very natural, might \
blog about it) [12:10:23] <Sho_> * On vacation Tue-Fr to focus on Konversation, but \
around for QtWS stuff + beta bugfixing if needed [12:10:32] <kbroulik> kicker backend \
is in plama-desktop no? [12:10:41] <Sho_> I meant plasma-workspace, typo
[12:10:43] <Sho_> :)
[12:10:43] <kbroulik> ah
[12:10:48] <kbroulik> now makes sense :)
[12:11:00] <kbroulik> looking forward to your text selection stuff
[12:11:14] <Sho_> It's funny, Android Oreo has homescreen pinning of contacts
[12:11:19] <Sho_> and it looks exactly like Kicker's does
[12:11:26] <Sho_> round avatar cutout with presence icon overlay
[12:11:37] <Sho_> if the homescreen uses Kicker it gets that for free already
[12:11:46] <jensreut> Material design, always stealing my stuff
[12:12:06] <Sho_> kbroulik: \
https://cgit.kde.org/konversation.git/commit/?h=wip/qtquick&id=af844dfb36a6048200666b58cd6f94983497f6d1
 [12:12:12] <Sho_> here is more about how text selection now works
[12:12:13] <notmart> well, even the post-pixel homescreeen is pretty much the one of \
plasma mobile [12:12:30] <sebas> Sho_: coolio
[12:12:31] <notmart> the favorites bar that gets dragged up to open the app grid
[12:12:33] <Sho_> and that's it from me then
[12:12:55] <sebas> (text selection, that's nasty shit, I recall working on that two \
years ago for the paste/copy/cut popups in touch for active) [12:13:01] <-- \
thymbahutymba (~quassel@host204-247-dynamic.10-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) has quit \
(Read error: Connection reset by peer) [12:13:12] --> thymbahutymba \
(~quassel@host204-247-dynamic.10-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) has joined #plasma \
[12:13:55] <sebas> d_ed is next up [12:14:06] <notmart> sebas: then rejoy, those from \
active are still used for QQC1 based controls, we'll have to redo it all for the QQC2 \
based controls now :p [12:14:26] <sebas> gheghe urghs
[12:14:29] <d_ed>  - Accessibility everywhere.
[12:14:29] <Sho_> yep, it already has touch-based selection now too
[12:14:31] <d_ed>  - Mostly keyboard nav, adding Accessible props.
[12:14:32] <d_ed>  - WIP patch to keyboard focus panel
[12:14:33] <d_ed>  - Made Orca work on wayland \o/
[12:14:40] <Sho_> you can long-press a message to engage selection mode, then tap to \
select/deselect more [12:14:52] <Sho_> i'm working on the desktop ver, but always \
keeping the mobile one in mind [12:14:55] <d_ed> More importantly
[12:14:56] <d_ed>  - Got lots of scaling feedback. Splitting some settings where \
users want different things in X and wayland. [12:14:57] <d_ed>  - Fixed an issue \
with scaling + cursor icon hotspots [12:14:59] <d_ed>  - Found a kwayland race that \
I'm currently fixing :/ [12:15:27] <kbroulik> if it werent for that stupid qtwayland \
issue I'm having when closing opengl windows, I could actually use Wayland :( \
[12:15:32] <Sho_> all the accessibility stuff from Randa is mighty impressive \
[12:15:36] <sebas> *hat-tip* to all the accessibility work you guys did in Randa btw! \
[12:15:39] <Sho_> you guys had such a codeing-productive sprint [12:15:41] <sebas> \
with sho [12:16:08] <d_ed> kbroulik: did you test Fabian's patch?
[12:16:13] <kbroulik> I did not yet
[12:16:13] <d_ed> (I haven't' yet)
[12:16:16] <kbroulik> :D
[12:16:20] <d_ed> ok, we should
[12:16:29] -*- d_ed makes a TODO to test
[12:16:54] <notmart> eh, was really important that we had fregl there which worked on \
the Qt part of it, having the Qt guy in the room that works on the thing you are \
trying to work with makes all the difference [12:17:12] <sebas> I can imagine, also \
fregl is awesome [12:17:15] <kbroulik> indeed
[12:17:43] <notmart> which, we should try do do more with other parts of qt as well \
which are less "reachable" at the moment (controls, qtwayland...) [12:17:58] \
<notmart> yep, he is awesome indeed [12:18:51] <sebas> agree
[12:19:06] --> salamanderrake (~quassel@2605:a000:122a:32:2c90:c748:ab7:3396) has \
joined #plasma [12:19:13] <d_ed> that was it from me
[12:19:18] <sebas> fvogt_vps: you there?
[12:19:29] <sebas> otherwise, it's my turn
[12:19:42] <sebas> - Coordinated and got out Plasma Mobile / Purism press release, \
was well received, crowdfunding went from <300K to >450K over the weekend \o/ \
[12:19:42] <sebas> - Worked a bit on kscreen not saving the output scaling value, \
more work on that [12:19:42] <sebas> - Half blog written about convergence, want to \
finish within the first part of this week [12:19:57] <bcooksley> d_ed: if you could \
respond regarding Johan please that would be appreciated [12:20:17] <-- Martchus \
(~martchus@dslb-178-002-246-109.178.002.pools.vodafone-ip.de) has quit (Ping timeout: \
248 seconds) [12:20:24] <d_ed> bcooksley: ack
[12:21:57] <sebas> Alright, meeting closed! Thanks everybody! I'll send the minutes \
and log to the list shortly... [12:22:01] <sebas> happy hacking!
[12:22:41] <kbroulik> you forgot me :0
[12:22:47] <sebas> ooops ... sorry kbour
[12:22:51] <kbroulik> * Fixed some bugs in FolderView, modifier drags (ie. \
Ctrl+Shift+drag for creating a link without popup confirmation) works now [12:22:55] \
<kbroulik> * Investigated a crash in Qt with XLIB_SKIP_ARGB_VISUALS when creating \
ARGB windows (e.g. tooltips in Breeze/Oxygen), patch \
https://codereview.qt-project.org/#/c/205268/ (already +2'd \o/) [12:23:02] \
<kbroulik> * Tried to figure out why KSplash on Wayland is misplaced in multiscreen \
setup but couldn't figure it out. Geometry send to plasmashell surface is correct.. \
[12:23:11] <kbroulik> * Some minor startup performance improvements for Dolphin \
[12:23:14] <kbroulik> * Some minor improvements for Kate [12:23:24] <kbroulik> that's \
it [12:23:25] <sebas> kbroulik... it's probably because we hate you! ;)
[12:23:29] <kbroulik> :D
[12:23:37] <jensreut> I have some VDG stuff to report on too
[12:23:44] <sebas> aah! go ahead jensreut
[12:23:45] <-> tosky is now known as tosky_
[12:23:53] <jensreut> We've been talking a bit about a secondary stock theme - \
essentially taking a well established but "non committed" theme and then trying to \
get that and its cretors into Incubator. Core idea is improving another theme in \
tandem - while at the same time sneaking contributors into KDE proper. [12:23:55] \
<jensreut> We started the "great splitting of tasks" in the VDG [12:23:56] <jensreut> \
Fabian has as I am sure many of you know gone to town on the HIG and specifically \
"making the unit page make sense" [12:23:58] <jensreut> Jack (the GTK guy) is working \
on improving our GTK theme as usual and may have som questions about CSD's and how we \
should deal with them [12:23:59] <jensreut> Andrew will work on improving our mockup \
toolkit and Alex will help create a Kirigami one (IIRC) [12:24:01] <jensreut> We \
talked a bit about making certain that mockups that are just mockups are shown as \
clear as possible that they ARE mockups so hopefully those kinds of problems will be \
avoided [12:24:11] <jensreut> Also I have a question does anyone know who the author \
of the color KCM is? [12:24:25] <-> tosky_ is now known as tosky
[12:24:28] <jensreut> (we needs that person to get a Breeze GTK that automatically \
follows the color theme) [12:24:45] <jensreut> (and when we have that we are \
essentially the coolest desktop in town) [12:24:47] <kbroulik> jensreut: dunno, \
according to git log Olivier Churlaud has most commits in there [12:24:48] <jensreut> \
*koolest [12:25:05] <jensreut> kbroulik: poor bastard he keeps running into us over \
and over :) [12:25:22] <jensreut> I am done sebas sry for being late
[12:25:49] <sebas> no worries
[12:25:57] <sebas> sorry for being confused :)
[12:26:08] <jensreut> :)
[12:26:17] --> fvogt (~fabian@p5490D7DC.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) has joined #plasma
[12:27:12] <sebas> fvogt: hey!
[12:27:14] <bcooksley> memory says cfeck is one of the folks behind the colour \
schemes stuff [12:27:22] <sebas> anything to report for the plasma meeting?
[12:27:26] <sebas> we're almost done / done
[12:27:46] <bcooksley> jensreut: have you talked with Ken lately?
[12:27:50] -*- fvogt just started his wakeup procedure
[12:28:06] <jensreut> bcooksley: yes
[12:28:14] <fvogt> I guess I've only got to mention the bug about 4k on virtio that \
started appearing about a week ago or so [12:28:20] <bcooksley> jensreut: please \
remind him i'm waiting on tickets for his Wordpress stuff [12:28:20] <fvogt> \
(https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=384789) [12:28:21] <sKreamer> KDE bug 384789 in \
KScreen (libkscreen) "Wrong screen size reported with qemu and virtio" [normal,] \
https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=384789 [12:28:29] <jensreut> bcooksley: will do
[12:29:03] <d_ed> I think the bug has always existed, I've just made a change that \
turns the pre-existing bug into a problem [12:29:24] <d_ed> (which obviously still \
needs fixing) [12:29:29] <fvogt> That might be true - I do wonder why there is such a \
difference between the actual resolution and the reported one [12:29:51] <sebas> \
okay, let's close the meeting though, thanks all for participating! :* [12:31:01] \
<jensreut> thanks for hosting



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