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List: webkit-dev
Subject: Re: [webkit-dev] Terminology: Could we change 'roll out' to 'roll back'?
From: Maciej Stachowiak <mjs () apple ! com>
Date: 2020-03-07 2:49:34
Message-ID: 2AAAFA07-521F-4DF7-960B-AC8782389922 () apple ! com
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I agree this usage of "roll out" is potentially confusing.
I think people say "roll out" for the symmetry to "check in". It also creates the convenient term "roll \
back in" for when a rollout is undone.
Personally, I think we should say "revert" and avoid use of roll-phrases entirely. "unrevert" isn't quite \
as natural as "roll back in", but it's good enough. Or you could say "re-land".
Regards,
Maciej
> On Mar 6, 2020, at 6:14 PM, Kirsling, Ross <Ross.Kirsling@sony.com> wrote:
>
> Greetings WebKittens,
>
> Late on Friday seems like a good time for a terminological debate (😂), so I'd like to propose we \
> revisit one of the strangest items of WebKit-specific terminology: the phrase ‘roll out'.
> In our industry, the typical meaning of the phrase ‘roll out' is, of course, ‘deploy' or \
> ‘launch'; this corresponds with the colloquial usage of ‘roll out' to mean ‘depart (for a \
> destination)'. In WebKit, we use ‘roll out' to mean the exact opposite, ‘revert' or ‘roll back'.
> In terms of metaphors: The typical meaning of ‘roll out' is synonymous with ‘roll forward', hence \
> the opposite being ‘roll back'. The way that I came to explain to myself and others what WebKit means \
> by ‘roll out' is that it's movement along the other axis. There is a tree (SVN trunk) which is built \
> up from disc-shaped slices (revisions), and these slices are rolled sideways in and out of the tree. \
> Needless to say, this is not obvious to a newcomer, and it's not even accurate to how SVN \
> works—rollouts don't remove an old revision, they add a new revision to perform the revert!
> This term is confusing enough for native English speakers outside our community, let alone non-natives \
> (since phrasal verbs are notoriously tricky as it is). Having heard complaints about this from people \
> in both of these groups within the last few weeks, I hereby propose that we start using ‘roll back' \
> instead. Given the string similarity between the two, I hope that this will be a relatively easy change \
> to enact, if folks are onboard with it.
> Thanks for your consideration!
>
> Ross
> _______________________________________________
> webkit-dev mailing list
> webkit-dev@lists.webkit.org <mailto:webkit-dev@lists.webkit.org>
> https://lists.webkit.org/mailman/listinfo/webkit-dev \
> <https://lists.webkit.org/mailman/listinfo/webkit-dev>
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<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"></head><body \
style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><div \
class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">I agree this usage of "roll out" is potentially \
confusing.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div>I think people say "roll out" for the symmetry to "check \
in". It also creates the convenient term "roll back in" for when a rollout is undone.<div class=""><br \
class=""></div><div class="">Personally, I think we should say "revert" and avoid use of roll-phrases \
entirely. "unrevert" isn't quite as natural as "roll back in", but it's good enough. Or you could say \
"re-land".<br class=""><div><br class=""></div><div>Regards,</div><div>Maciej</div><div><br \
class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On Mar 6, 2020, at 6:14 PM, Kirsling, Ross <<a \
href="mailto:Ross.Kirsling@sony.com" class="">Ross.Kirsling@sony.com</a>> wrote:</div><br \
class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=""><div class="WordSection1" style="page: WordSection1; \
caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; \
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: \
0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; \
text-decoration: none;"><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri, \
sans-serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt;" class="">Greetings WebKittens,<o:p \
class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri, \
sans-serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></span></div><div \
style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span \
style="font-size: 11pt;" class="">Late on Friday seems like a good time for a terminological debate \
(</span><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: "Apple Color Emoji";" \
class="">😂</span><span style="font-size: 11pt;" class="">), so I'd like to propose we revisit one of \
the strangest items of WebKit-specific terminology: the phrase ‘roll out'.<o:p \
class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri, \
sans-serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></span></div><div \
style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span \
style="font-size: 11pt;" class="">In our industry, the typical meaning of the phrase ‘roll out' is, of \
course, ‘deploy' or ‘launch'; this corresponds with the colloquial usage of ‘roll out' to mean \
‘depart (for a destination)'. In WebKit, we use ‘roll out' to mean the exact opposite, ‘revert' or \
‘roll back'.<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; \
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt;" class=""><o:p \
class=""> </o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: \
Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt;" class="">In terms of metaphors: The typical \
meaning of ‘roll out' is synonymous with ‘roll forward', hence the opposite being ‘roll back'. The \
way that I came to explain to myself and others what WebKit means by ‘roll out' is that it's movement \
along the other axis. There is a tree (SVN trunk) which is built up from disc-shaped slices (revisions), \
and these slices are rolled sideways in and out of the tree. Needless to say, this is not obvious to a \
newcomer, and it's not even accurate to how SVN works—rollouts don't remove an old revision, they add a \
new revision to perform the revert!<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; \
font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt;" class=""><o:p \
class=""> </o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: \
Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt;" class="">This term is confusing enough for \
native English speakers outside our community, let alone non-natives (since phrasal verbs are notoriously \
tricky as it is). Having heard complaints about this from people in both of these groups within the last \
few weeks, I hereby propose that we start using ‘roll back' instead. Given the string similarity \
between the two, I hope that this will be a relatively easy change to enact, if folks are onboard with \
it.<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: \
Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt;" class=""><o:p \
class=""> </o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: \
Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt;" class="">Thanks for your consideration!<o:p \
class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri, \
sans-serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></span></div><div \
style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span \
style="font-size: 11pt;" class="">Ross<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div></div><span style="caret-color: \
rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; \
font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; \
white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; float: \
none; display: inline !important;" class="">_______________________________________________</span><br \
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font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: \
0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; \
text-decoration: none;" class=""><span style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; \
font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: \
normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: \
0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline !important;" \
class="">webkit-dev mailing list</span><br style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; \
font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: \
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