From webkit-dev Sat Mar 07 02:49:34 2020 From: Maciej Stachowiak Date: Sat, 07 Mar 2020 02:49:34 +0000 To: webkit-dev Subject: Re: [webkit-dev] Terminology: Could we change 'roll out' to 'roll back'? Message-Id: <2AAAFA07-521F-4DF7-960B-AC8782389922 () apple ! com> X-MARC-Message: https://marc.info/?l=webkit-dev&m=158354946915970 MIME-Version: 1 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="--===============1300777785==" --===============1300777785== Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_1986613E-84D9-4D09-BF2B-F87FF84D26F9" --Apple-Mail=_1986613E-84D9-4D09-BF2B-F87FF84D26F9 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 I agree this usage of =E2=80=9Croll out=E2=80=9D is potentially = confusing. I think people say =E2=80=9Croll out=E2=80=9D for the symmetry to = =E2=80=9Ccheck in=E2=80=9D. It also creates the convenient term =E2=80=9Cr= oll back in=E2=80=9D for when a rollout is undone. Personally, I think we should say =E2=80=9Crevert=E2=80=9D and avoid use = of roll-phrases entirely. =E2=80=9Cunrevert=E2=80=9D isn=E2=80=99t quite = as natural as =E2=80=9Croll back in=E2=80=9D, but it=E2=80=99s good = enough. Or you could say =E2=80=9Cre-land=E2=80=9D. Regards, Maciej > On Mar 6, 2020, at 6:14 PM, Kirsling, Ross = wrote: >=20 > Greetings WebKittens, > =20 > Late on Friday seems like a good time for a terminological debate = (=F0=9F=98=82), so I=E2=80=99d like to propose we revisit one of the = strangest items of WebKit-specific terminology: the phrase =E2=80=98roll = out=E2=80=99. > =20 > In our industry, the typical meaning of the phrase =E2=80=98roll = out=E2=80=99 is, of course, =E2=80=98deploy=E2=80=99 or =E2=80=98launch=E2= =80=99; this corresponds with the colloquial usage of =E2=80=98roll = out=E2=80=99 to mean =E2=80=98depart (for a destination)=E2=80=99. In = WebKit, we use =E2=80=98roll out=E2=80=99 to mean the exact opposite, = =E2=80=98revert=E2=80=99 or =E2=80=98roll back=E2=80=99. > =20 > In terms of metaphors: The typical meaning of =E2=80=98roll out=E2=80=99= is synonymous with =E2=80=98roll forward=E2=80=99, hence the opposite = being =E2=80=98roll back=E2=80=99. The way that I came to explain to = myself and others what WebKit means by =E2=80=98roll out=E2=80=99 is = that it=E2=80=99s movement along the other axis. There is a tree (SVN = trunk) which is built up from disc-shaped slices (revisions), and these = slices are rolled sideways in and out of the tree. Needless to say, this = is not obvious to a newcomer, and it=E2=80=99s not even accurate to how = SVN works=E2=80=94rollouts don=E2=80=99t remove an old revision, they = add a new revision to perform the revert! > =20 > This term is confusing enough for native English speakers outside our = community, let alone non-natives (since phrasal verbs are notoriously = tricky as it is). Having heard complaints about this from people in both = of these groups within the last few weeks, I hereby propose that we = start using =E2=80=98roll back=E2=80=99 instead. Given the string = similarity between the two, I hope that this will be a relatively easy = change to enact, if folks are onboard with it. > =20 > Thanks for your consideration! > =20 > Ross > _______________________________________________ > webkit-dev mailing list > webkit-dev@lists.webkit.org > https://lists.webkit.org/mailman/listinfo/webkit-dev = --Apple-Mail=_1986613E-84D9-4D09-BF2B-F87FF84D26F9 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8

I agree this usage of = =E2=80=9Croll out=E2=80=9D is potentially confusing.

I think people say =E2=80=9Croll out=E2=80= =9D for the symmetry to =E2=80=9Ccheck in=E2=80=9D. It also creates the = convenient term =E2=80=9Croll back in=E2=80=9D for when a rollout is = undone.

Personally, = I think we should say =E2=80=9Crevert=E2=80=9D and avoid use of = roll-phrases entirely. =E2=80=9Cunrevert=E2=80=9D isn=E2=80=99t quite as = natural as =E2=80=9Croll back in=E2=80=9D, but it=E2=80=99s good enough. = Or you could say =E2=80=9Cre-land=E2=80=9D.

Regards,
Maciej

On Mar = 6, 2020, at 6:14 PM, Kirsling, Ross <Ross.Kirsling@sony.com> wrote:

Greetings WebKittens,
 
Late on Friday = seems like a good time for a terminological debate (=F0=9F=98=82), so I=E2=80=99d like to propose we revisit one of the = strangest items of WebKit-specific terminology: the phrase =E2=80=98roll = out=E2=80=99.
 
In our industry, = the typical meaning of the phrase =E2=80=98roll out=E2=80=99 is, of = course, =E2=80=98deploy=E2=80=99 or =E2=80=98launch=E2=80=99; this = corresponds with the colloquial usage of =E2=80=98roll out=E2=80=99 to = mean =E2=80=98depart (for a destination)=E2=80=99. In WebKit, we use = =E2=80=98roll out=E2=80=99 to mean the exact opposite, =E2=80=98revert=E2=80= =99 or =E2=80=98roll back=E2=80=99.
 
In terms of = metaphors: The typical meaning of =E2=80=98roll out=E2=80=99 is = synonymous with =E2=80=98roll forward=E2=80=99, hence the opposite being = =E2=80=98roll back=E2=80=99. The way that I came to explain to myself = and others what WebKit means by =E2=80=98roll out=E2=80=99 is that = it=E2=80=99s movement along the other axis. There is a tree (SVN trunk) = which is built up from disc-shaped slices (revisions), and these slices = are rolled sideways in and out of the tree. Needless to say, this is not = obvious to a newcomer, and it=E2=80=99s not even accurate to how SVN = works=E2=80=94rollouts don=E2=80=99t remove an old revision, they add a = new revision to perform the revert!
 
This term is = confusing enough for native English speakers outside our community, let = alone non-natives (since phrasal verbs are notoriously tricky as it is). = Having heard complaints about this from people in both of these groups = within the last few weeks, I hereby propose that we start using =E2=80=98r= oll back=E2=80=99 instead. Given the string similarity between the two, = I hope that this will be a relatively easy change to enact, if folks are = onboard with it.
 
Thanks for your = consideration!
 
Ross
_______________________________________________
webkit-dev mailing = list
webkit-dev@lists.webkit.org
https://lists.webkit.org/mailman/listinfo/webkit-dev
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