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List:       ubuntu-users
Subject:    Re: update manager refuses to upgrade kernel to newer version
From:       Oliver Grawert <ogra () ubuntu ! com>
Date:       2016-02-13 14:42:26
Message-ID: 1455374546.24186.136.camel () anubis
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hi, 
Am Freitag, den 12.02.2016, 18:42 +0100 schrieb Ralf Mardorf:
> On Fri, 12 Feb 2016 18:27:52 +0100, Oliver Grawert wrote:
> >hi,
> >Am Freitag, den 12.02.2016, 17:45 +0100 schrieb Ralf Mardorf:
> >
> >> if people won't disable GRUB2's auto-crap.   
> >
> >...as usual you are full of respect for the work of others ...
> 
> I respect the work of others, 

well, lets take a little historical review here ... 

in the very first thread you participated in on this list you wrote:
"what's different between Ubuntu and a distro using a clean systemd"

in this thread you never accepted the fact that there might be reasons
why debian and ubuntu package it the way they do or why they leave devs
the time to migrate their packages at a slower pace from sysvinit to
systemd, you outright called the debian and ubuntu implementations
"unclean" without any research or evidence. iirc this thread escalated
quite badly already ...

a month later you claim:
"Using a meta-package ... might install a lot of unwanted crap"

this unwanted "crap" is what makes ubuntu ubuntu, most of the packages
in a seed (metapackage) have been discussed countless hours on IRC, in
bugs and if the feature that draws them in is big enough even at one of
the ubuntu summits [1]. many people put in a lot of work to make such
decisions, there are reasons and a lot of work from humans behind the
inclusion of every single package in ubuntu-minimal, ubuntu-standard or
ubuntu-desktop, believe it or not ... 

then:
"When ever I allowed that crappy GRUB automation to waste my time..."

the grub automation works in the majority of times where people didn't
remove the "unwanted crap" but used Ubuntu from a proper install that
they didn't cripple. you blame the grub maintainer for not supporting
your non-standard setup ...

a short time later there was a disastrous thread where you wrote:
"Why do people who chose freakish distros often ask for help in
Ubuntu..."
and later in the same thread:
"I wasn't thinking about the word "freakish" wich wasn't a personal
attack against anybody"
right, it was no personal attack but just completely discrediting every
person who puts work into creating such a "freakish" distro...

this thread ended in moderators joining in IIRC ...

shortly after you attacked one of the ASL upstreams for accidentially
sending a package inclusion request to ubuntu users (along with a rant
and longish report how "they" ..."hope that somebody will do it for
them"... and how "they" were down-voted in arch mailing lists for this)

a month later there was the thread where you called someone "mentally
ill" and suggested he should get psychological help ... this thread
again ended in moderators having to join in...

the next thread had: "In my experiences ClamAV is crap." ...
it didn't fit you use case, so you are calling it crap, ignoring that
many people have put in many hours of paid or unpaid work to provide it
to you.

about USB drives not auto-mounting:
..."when GVFS is installed. Since it's GNOMEish crap"...

then, in the recent discussion about bug tracking while talking to a
long standing Ubuntu QA person and bugsquad member (who has put in a lot
of time to help designing what we have today) you called his work
spyware without any evidence or even the will to try the tool once ...

coming back to the grub2 "auto-crap" ... did you consider that the
maintainer is a member of this list (he is) and did you also consider
that a bootloader is far more complex than any other software (needs to
be self contained, needs to support all available HW, all sorts of boot
mechanisms the HW provides, needs to deal with legacy HW, needs to deal
with old installations etc etc) ... if the pre-requisites for auto
detection aren't given there is not much grub can do about it but to ask
the user to fulfill them (i.e. "please mount /dev if it is not"). you
claim there is a bug, be assured there isn't one (nontheless feel free
to file one to get more official confirmation on the bug tracker if you
need).

if you actually read this far the hour i invested to go through the
archive was probably not wasted ... don't get me wrong please, i really
admire your technical skills and also your passion when working on
solving a problem. i personally often disagree about the way and the
extremely low level you attack, but that doesn't matter, you are still
often helpful... 

nontheless ... you have not even been on this list for a year and we had
more escalated threads in this time than we did in the two years before
(i actually cant remember seeing moderators speak up for a very long
time) and you have been involved in all of them ...

Ubuntu isn't just a name of a distro. one part of the often quoted
"awesome community help" in Ubuntu results from the fact that people
also respect the meaning of the word and realize that there is a human
being behind every single line of code that we all are using, please
consider that when writing your mails to this list ...

... if you visit a friend in real life, do you run around in his house
and point out how ugly you find his furniture or his choice of
wallpapers all the time and call it "crap" ? 

i bet you don't :)

ciao
	oli

[1] http://summit.ubuntu.com/ (feel free to participate in may)


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