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List:       opensuse
Subject:    Re: [opensuse] systemd
From:       ianseeks <bingmybong () btinternet ! com>
Date:       2017-07-15 17:09:35
Message-ID: 4318945.9XakoUpMGp () lianli
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On Friday, 14 July 2017 23:02:05 BST Brian K. White wrote:
> On 7/14/2017 4:48 PM, Knurpht - Gertjan Lettink vv wrote:
> > Op vrijdag 14 juli 2017 22:22:18 CEST schreef Brian K. White:
> > > On 7/14/2017 3:34 PM, Anton Aylward wrote:
> > > > On 14/07/17 03:11 PM, Knurpht - Gertjan Lettink wrote:
> > > > > Furthermore I'd like to state I'm not a friend of Lennart, never met
> > > > > him
> > > > > actually, but that I do dislike the bashing of him. IMHO he's one of
> > > > > the
> > > > > FOSS people that have dared to step up and do something. Which, IMNSHO
> > > > > deserves respect.
> > > > 
> > > > Indeed.
> > > > 
> > > > In one of the classic texts on logical circuit design, so fundamental
> > > > that
> > > > its idea are probably embedded in every design tool and now taken for
> > > > granted in the>
> > > > profession, is a quotation from the Roman poet Homer.  In translation it
> > 
> > reads:
> > > > Brother, if you have a better idea, propose it freely.
> > > > If not, make use of mine.
> > > > 
> > > > Or, idiomatically:
> > > > 	Put up or shut up.
> > > > 
> > > > Its easy being a critic.
> > > > Contributing something that is effective, lasting, easy to understand
> > > > and
> > > > maintain, and extensible is quite another matter.
> > > 
> > > Uh, the better idea had already been proposed, and it proved itself for
> > > decades. Nothing about systemd improves upon it.
> > > systemd is like saying you think you invented a better way to do
> > > accounting. All that best-practices stuff they taught everyone for
> > > decades, so old and obsolete, we have a better way where we don't have
> > > to do all that annoying double entry stuff. Oh ok. Got it.
> > > 
> > > --
> > > bkw
> > 
> > Yep. And KDE3 is the only desktop.
> > And kernel 2.6 is the best ever made.
> 
> You have that exactly backwards. A useful tool does not demand that you
> use kde3, OR kde5.
> It does not even demand or care one whit if you use any desktop at all.
> What a perfectly illustrative assumption you make by even saying "kde3".
> 
> There is nothing about init that prevents you from using any desktop, or
> from developing it to new different ones. This new vs old fixation is
> what's idiotic. Assumptions are what's wrong. Assumptions always need to
> be as few and necessary as possible. The old init makes *fewer*
> assumptions, and inflicts no demands upon how the higher level
> applications do things. It allows you to replace kde3 with kde5 or kde18

You'll need to speak to the developers of kde3/5/18/999 about that, its their 
choice how they run and what dependencies they build in.  
Quote from Dave Edmundson on plasma "The init system. We don't care. It 
doesn't affect us. The init system is one part of systemd that doesn't affect 
us at all, and any other could be used."
http://blog.davidedmundson.co.uk/blog/systemd-and-plasma

Here LP talks bout Gnome/consolekit \
https://www.linuxvoice.com/interview-lennart-poettering/ - search out this question \
"LV: Some people see it as a  requirement for Gnome…"
These 2 links might quell your fears..

> without caring at all. It is systemd which creates incompatibility out
> of thin air for no justifiable reason. There is no feature which systemd
> provides, which had to be implemented the way systemd does it, requiring
> the exclusion of, and breaking the function of any and all other methods
> of system set-up.
> You say you have heard it all before, but how does that change any of
> the facts? And if you've heard it all before, then really that's just
> embarrassing for you, since it means you can no longer claim ignorance
> to excuse or explain your lack of understanding.
> 
> Let me ask another question: What is so magic about this decision that
> makes it so unassailable? The init system can only change once in the
> history of time? It can change from init to systemd, but that was it,
> now it can only be systemd until the heat-death of the universe?

It will probably evolve/morph into something else when the need arises, 
remember sysvinit wasn't the first init system.
 
> You make ludicrous arguments based only on other ludicrous arguments.


-- 
opensuse:tumbleweed:20170712
Qt: 5.9.1
KDE Frameworks: 5.35.0
KDE Plasma: 5.10.3
kwin 5.10.3
kmail2 5.5.2
akonadiserver 5.5.2
Kernel:  4.11.8-1-default
Nouveau:  1.0.15_1.2


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