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List:       opensuse
Subject:    Re: [opensuse] Problems with KDE-4.0
From:       "Rajko M." <rmatov101 () charter ! net>
Date:       2008-01-14 8:50:01
Message-ID: 200801140250.01426.rmatov101 () charter ! net
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On Sunday 13 January 2008 11:49:01 pm Basil Chupin wrote:

> > This is first release in KDE4 series and it is created just as any
> > before, under common opensource development idea to release software
> > often. In the opensource world there is no test lab, and there is no
> > finished product idea as functionality is added on the go, not by
> > customer or marketing department specifications.
> >  
>
> So, according to this, 'CHAOS' reigns - "and all is well with the world".
>
> > What confused many, including me, is the version addon like Beta, than RC
> > that I deciphered in the same way as openSUSE Beta or RC. I have
> > forgotten that open source has no common standards for version numbering,
> > that will associate certain features and code quality to the number.
> >  
>
> Perhaps, then, it is time that some "method in the madness" be
> introduced for the benefit of the 'common good - ie, the 'punters who
> use the software' - no?

I was talking about open source software, but does punter that use software 
compare version of Adobe Photoshop vs. CorelDraw? No one sane requires that 
even two products from the same house have no common numbers. Simply, you 
can't describe 2 sets of features with single number and tell that it has any 
meaning. 

> > For instance k3b in openSUSE 10.3 is now version 1.03 and it is fine
> > software for a long time before it was 1.0.
> > Smart is 0.51 and already works fine.
>
> Ahem..... smart, which I have installed in 10.3, is 0.52-5.1.

~> cat /etc/SuSE-release
openSUSE 10.3 (i586)
VERSION = 10.3

~> smart --version
smart 0.51

This tells me what is part of your problem. You install software from 
different sources and expect that all will play well togeather. 
Forget that. 
I doesn't work well all the time. 
That is the main reason why SUSE (and any other distro), since ever, creates 
releases. They spend time balancing requirements of software packages and 
when all works well, they say this a release. 

> And I agree, it does work very well - much, much better than the zypper
> in 10.3 which I used for some time before realising that it was, once
> again, a dud. smart advises me that there are upgrades while zypper/YaST
> remains totally, and absolutely, dumb.
>
> And zypper/YaST were installed - and used for some weeks - as per the
> normal 10.3 insallation (smart was nowhere to be seen for weeks).

Sincerely Smart is not all that smart. 
I installed it and when running 'smart --gui' it complained that 'it is 
missing interface gtk'. Very useless message. I have gtk installed for other 
applications that use it. 
~> sudo rpm -qa gtk gtk2
gtk2-2.12.0-5.4
gtk-1.2.10-993

So I played a bit and found that is missing 'python-gtk'. Very funny. There is 
111 hits if you ask for 'gtk' only. 

> >  Each developer gives numbers as he/she
> > finds fit,
>
> I am sure that you did not really mean this. Even the leading exponent
> of 'chaos', "The OS which shall not be named", doesn't follow this concept.

Everyone follows this concept.
I just made mistake telling that is opensource property.  

> >  so one has to ask developer for explanation, or simply try
> > software and see the features, not to assume from number what is
> > included. 
>
> Kinda difficult to assume, or second-guess, what a developer has in mind
> if one accepts this idea.

It is not difficult, it is MI (mission impossible). 
Looking on software project page one can decipher meaning of the number, and 
apply result to follow that project alone. 

> > More details you can find in http://en.opensuse.org/KDE4 title 'What to
> > expect of KDE 4.0'. They provide 3 links to articles that explain how KDE
> > developers see the version numbering
>
> I accept this, but, unfortunately, I cannot boot the CD(s) created from
> the downloaded ISO of the KDE4 LIVE made available a couple of days ago.

Some detail might be helpful, specially if posted on opensuse-kde list. 

KDE developers seems to be busy recently developing KDE4 and still maintaining 
KDE3, so there is not much time left to browse mail lists for posts about 
KDE.  

-- 
Regards,
Rajko
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