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Subject: Re: Modeling a chain of causes of death
From: "'Andrew Kanter' via OpenMRS Implementers" <implementers () openmrs ! org>
Date: 2014-08-30 7:55:55
Message-ID: 1409385355.80961.YahooMailNeo () web163805 ! mail ! gq1 ! yahoo ! com
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Darius/Burke,
I am open to suggestions here. The original purpose of the concept was to record the \
cause of death FROM the death certificate for reporting purposes and not actually \
produce the death certificate. However, I would have thought that adding a new \
concept would be unnecessary as simply adding a free-text field (generic) to the \
array would capture the death data. You would only be querying it in the context of \
the causes of death from death certificate set. If you really think that a separate \
non-coded and unanalyzable concept for cause of death is needed, I am willing to \
listen :)
Andy
--------------------
Andrew S. Kanter, MD MPH FACMI
Asst. Prof. of Clinical Biomedical Informatics and Clinical Epidemiology
Columbia University
Email: andrew.kanter@dbmi.columbia.edu
Mobile: +1 (646) 469-2421
Office: +1 (212) 305-4842
Skype: akanter-ippnw
Yahoo: andy_kanter
On Thursday, August 28, 2014 8:12 PM, Darius Jazayeri <djazayeri@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> I just need that concept, yes.
>
>
> I also hope to get agreement from anyone interested that this is the right way to \
> approach things for a future reference application death note.
>
> -Darius
>
>
>
> On Thu, Aug 28, 2014 at 5:58 PM, Burke Mamlin <burke@openmrs.org> wrote:
>
> Typically order matters and the first (or the last) item is what is reported/used \
> when a single diagnosis is needed (not a random one from the middle), so the "is \
> this the cause to report" item shouldn't be necessary.
> >
> >
> > It sounds like you just need a CAUSE OF DEATH FROM DEATH CERTIFICATE, NON-CODED \
> > for the free text (assuming that the concept with "UUID" \
> > 1814AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA is coded).
> >
> > -Burke
> >
> >
> >
> > On Thu, Aug 28, 2014 at 8:38 PM, Darius Jazayeri <djazayeri@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > PS- I think we have the requirement of supporting free-text non-coded causes, so \
> > if we're going to use this concept set I think PIH would want to add a non-coded \
> > equivalent to this.
> > >
> > >
> > > -Darius
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On Thu, Aug 28, 2014 at 5:32 PM, Darius Jazayeri <djazayeri@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > Hi All,
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > We are implementing a death certificate for Mirebalais hospital, based on a \
> > > > MoH form, and we need to capture the chain of causes of death. (I presume \
> > > > this is a common requirement, and I'd like to implement it in a way that's \
> > > > straightforward to include in the reference application.)
> > > >
> > > > An example from the form instructions is (excuse my translation from French):
> > > > a) Hemorrhage of esophageal veins
> > > > b) Portal hypertension
> > > > c) Cirrhosis of the liver
> > > > d) Hepatitis B <- report this ICD-10 code as the cause
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > How best to model this in the concept dictionary?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > My thought is to have a concept set containing:
> > > > * (coded) cause of death
> > > >
> > > > * (integer) order
> > > >
> > > > * (boolean) is this the cause to report [maybe]
> > > >
> > > > I see that CIEL has a Causes of death from death certificate concept set like \
> > > > I describe. It doesn't have the boolean, though I guess there's no reason to \
> > > > explicitly store this.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Is this the right concept to use when building this functionality for the \
> > > > reference application?
> > > >
> > > > -Darius
> > > --
> > > OpenMRS Implementers: http://go.openmrs.org/implementers
> > > Post: implementers@openmrs.org
> > > Unsubscribe: implementers+unsubscribe@openmrs.org
> > > Manage your OpenMRS subscriptions at https://id.openmrs.org/
> > >
> > --
> > OpenMRS Implementers: http://go.openmrs.org/implementers
> > Post: implementers@openmrs.org
> > Unsubscribe: implementers+unsubscribe@openmrs.org
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> > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email \
> > to implementers+unsubscribe@openmrs.org.
>
--
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> implementers+unsubscribe@openmrs.org.
>
>
--
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[Attachment #3 (text/html)]
<html><body><div style="color:#000; background-color:#fff; font-family:HelveticaNeue, \
Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, \
sans-serif;font-size:14pt"><div><span>Darius/Burke,</span></div><div style="color: \
rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 19px; font-family: HelveticaNeue, 'Helvetica Neue', \
Helvetica, Arial, 'Lucida Grande', sans-serif; background-color: transparent; \
font-style: normal;"><span>I am open to suggestions here. The original purpose of the \
concept was to record the cause of death FROM the death certificate for reporting \
purposes and not actually produce the death certificate. However, I would have \
thought that adding a new concept would be unnecessary as simply adding a free-text \
field (generic) to the array would capture the death data. You would only be querying \
it in the context of the causes of death from death certificate set. If you really \
think that a separate non-coded and unanalyzable concept for cause of death is \
needed, I am willing to listen :)</span></div><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); \
font-size: 19px; font-family: HelveticaNeue, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, \
'Lucida Grande', sans-serif; background-color: transparent; font-style: \
normal;"><span><br></span></div><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 19px; \
font-family: HelveticaNeue, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, 'Lucida Grande', \
sans-serif; background-color: transparent; font-style: \
normal;"><span>Andy</span></div><div></div><div> </div><div><b>-------------------- \
<br>Andrew S. Kanter, MD MPH FACMI<br><span class="Apple-style-span" \
style="font-weight:normal;"><b><br></b></span></b></div><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, \
0); font-size: 13px; font-family: arial, helvetica, clean, sans-serif; \
background-color: transparent; font-style: normal;">Asst. Prof. of Clinical \
Biomedical Informatics and Clinical Epidemiology<br></div><div style="color: rgb(0, \
0, 0); font-size: 13px; background-color: transparent; font-style: normal; \
font-family: arial, helvetica, clean, sans-serif;">Columbia University<br>Email: \
andrew.kanter@dbmi.columbia.edu <br>Mobile: +1 (646) 469-2421<br>Office: +1 (212) \
305-4842<br>Skype: akanter-ippnw<br>Yahoo: andy_kanter</div> <div \
class="qtdSeparateBR"><br><br></div><div class="yahoo_quoted" style="display: \
block;"> <div style="font-family: HelveticaNeue, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, \
'Lucida Grande', sans-serif; font-size: 14pt;"> <div style="font-family: \
HelveticaNeue, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, 'Lucida Grande', sans-serif; \
font-size: 12pt;"> <div dir="ltr"> <font size="2" face="Arial"> On Thursday, August \
28, 2014 8:12 PM, Darius Jazayeri <djazayeri@gmail.com> wrote:<br> </font> \
</div> <blockquote style="border-left: 2px solid rgb(16, 16, 255); margin-left: 5px; \
margin-top: 5px; padding-left: 5px;"> <br><br> <div class="y_msg_container"><div \
id="yiv7419420865"><div><div dir="ltr">I just need that concept, yes.<div><br \
clear="none"></div><div>I also hope to get agreement from anyone interested that this \
is the right way to approach things for a future reference application death \
note.</div><div><br clear="none">
</div><div>-Darius</div></div><div class="yiv7419420865yqt7259344599" \
id="yiv7419420865yqt58672"><div class="yiv7419420865gmail_extra"><br clear="none"><br \
clear="none"><div class="yiv7419420865gmail_quote">On Thu, Aug 28, 2014 at 5:58 PM, \
Burke Mamlin <span dir="ltr"><<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" \
ymailto="mailto:burke@openmrs.org" target="_blank" \
href="mailto:burke@openmrs.org">burke@openmrs.org</a>></span> wrote:<br \
clear="none">
<blockquote class="yiv7419420865gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px \
#ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;"><div dir="ltr">Typically order matters and the first \
(or the last) item is what is reported/used when a single diagnosis is needed (not a \
random one from the middle), so the "is this the cause to report" item shouldn't be \
necessary.<div>
<br clear="none"></div><div>It sounds like you just need a CAUSE OF DEATH FROM DEATH \
CERTIFICATE, NON-CODED for the free text (assuming that the concept with "UUID" \
1814AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA is coded).</div><div><br clear="none">
</div>
<div>-Burke</div></div><div class="yiv7419420865gmail_extra"><br clear="none"><br \
clear="none"><div class="yiv7419420865gmail_quote"><div><div \
class="yiv7419420865h5">On Thu, Aug 28, 2014 at 8:38 PM, Darius Jazayeri <span \
dir="ltr"><<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:djazayeri@gmail.com" \
target="_blank" href="mailto:djazayeri@gmail.com">djazayeri@gmail.com</a>></span> \
wrote:<br clear="none">
</div></div><blockquote class="yiv7419420865gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 \
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;"><div><div \
class="yiv7419420865h5"><div dir="ltr">PS- I think we have the requirement of \
supporting free-text non-coded causes, so if we're going to use this concept set I \
think PIH would want to add a non-coded equivalent to <a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" \
target="_blank" href="http://maternalconceptlab.com/search.php?q=id:1814&source=openmrs">this</a>.<div>
<br clear="none"></div><div>-Darius</div></div></div></div><div><div><div><div \
class="yiv7419420865h5"><div class="yiv7419420865gmail_extra"><br clear="none"><br \
clear="none"><div class="yiv7419420865gmail_quote">On Thu, Aug 28, 2014 at 5:32 PM, \
Darius Jazayeri <span dir="ltr"><<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" \
ymailto="mailto:djazayeri@gmail.com" target="_blank" \
href="mailto:djazayeri@gmail.com">djazayeri@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br \
clear="none">
<blockquote class="yiv7419420865gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px \
#ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;"><div dir="ltr">Hi All,<div><br \
clear="none"></div><div>We are implementing a death certificate for Mirebalais \
hospital, based on a MoH form, and we need to capture the chain of causes of death. \
(I presume this is a common requirement, and I'd like to implement it in a way that's \
straightforward to include in the reference application.)</div>
<div><br clear="none"></div><div>An example from the form instructions is (excuse my \
translation from French):</div><div>a) Hemorrhage of esophageal veins</div><div>b) \
Portal hypertension</div><div>c) Cirrhosis of the liver</div><div>
d) <u>Hepatitis B</u> <- report this ICD-10 code as the cause</div><div><br \
clear="none"></div><div>How best to model this in the concept \
dictionary?</div><div><br clear="none"></div><div>My thought is to have a concept set \
containing:</div><div>
<ul><li>(coded) cause of death<br clear="none"></li><li>(integer) order<br \
clear="none"></li><li>(boolean) is this the cause to report [maybe]<br \
clear="none"></li></ul></div><div>I see that CIEL has a <a rel="nofollow" \
shape="rect" target="_blank" \
href="http://maternalconceptlab.com/search.php?q=id:1816&source=openmrs">Causes \
of death from death certificate</a> concept set like I describe. It doesn't have the \
boolean, though I guess there's no reason to explicitly store this.<br clear="none">
</div><div><br clear="none"></div><div>Is this the right concept to use when building \
this functionality for the reference application?</div><span><font \
color="#888888"></font></span><div><br clear="none"></div><div>-Darius</div></div>
</blockquote></div><br clear="none"></div>
</div></div><span class="yiv7419420865HOEnZb"><font color="#888888">
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</font></span>
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<p></p>
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