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List: nepomuk
Subject: Re: [Nepomuk] Music issues I want to fix
From: Ignacio Serantes <kde () aynoa ! net>
Date: 2012-06-13 14:00:29
Message-ID: CAKbQbApGcXrVk8Jz_YoMK2cF96WqiAO555=u6px4GD4cb5tfSA () mail ! gmail ! com
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Well, I forgot classic music so I was wrong :P.
nmm:albumPerformer, with a cardinality 0:n is totally right. It's not
handled by id3 tags but for classic music is in several cases the main
difference between two music albums.
On Wed, Jun 13, 2012 at 12:18 PM, Ignacio Serantes <kde@aynoa.net> wrote:
>
>
> On Wed, Jun 13, 2012 at 11:27 AM, Sebastian Trüg <sebastian@trueg.de>wrote:
>
> > On 06/13/2012 11:04 AM, Ignacio Serantes wrote:
> >
> > > Hi,
> > >
> > > On Wed, Jun 13, 2012 at 10:52 AM, Sebastian Trüg <sebastian@trueg.de
> > > <mailto:sebastian@trueg.de>> wrote:
> > >
> > > On 06/10/2012 08:32 PM, Ignacio Serantes wrote:
> > >
> > > I brief update status.
> > >
> > > 1) I just fix multiple performers bug in flac analyzer.
> > >
> > > 2) nmm:albumArtist seems to be related to DB structure and is not
> > > a
> > > coding bug. I just added nmm:albumArtist to SDO and now there is a
> > > nmm:albumArtist in nmm:MusicAlbum. This is the code I added:
> > > nmm:albumArtist
> > > a rdf:Property, nrl:DefiningProperty ;
> > > rdfs:subPropertyOf nco:contributor ;
> > > rdfs:label "album artist" ;
> > > rdfs:comment "Album artist" ;
> > > rdfs:domain nmm:MusicAlbum ;
> > > rdfs:range nco:Contact .
> > >
> > >
> > > This looks good. I am only concerned about having performer and
> > > producer on the tracks and artist on the album. Shouldn't that be in
> > > sync somehow? After all an album is also produced, right? A
> > > compilation has a producer and each track has a possibly different
> > > producer...
> > >
> > >
> > > This is right but as there is no tag for album producer this information
> > > can not be obtained from the music file so this is outside my actual
> > > goals. Album producers can be obtained using a query, as I'm doing in
> > > Nepoogle for album performers.
> > >
> >
> > What I mean is we need nmm:albumProducer and nmm:albumPerformer. What do
> > you think?
> >
>
> nmm:albumProducer don't bothers but I'm not sure about nmm:albumPerformer.
> Performer is the "performer" and not the album artist, yes my Engrish is
> bad. An album artist is a good field because and album always have an
> associated artist: Queen, ELO or Various artists, but in the real world
> there is not a performer associated with the album but is associated to
> music piece.
>
> Album producer is not the same case because, sometimes, there is a general
> album producer and other producers for music pieces. So album producer and
> artist producer are the same case but not for performers, lyricists or
> composers. It's right that many times performers, lyricist or composers are
> the same for all the music album but I still consider that this are music
> piece fields.
>
>
>
> >
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > I will upload a patch to Review Board for the first one but,
> > > what must I
> > > do with the second one?
> > >
> > >
> > > The normal approach is to create a ticket at
> > > https://sourceforge.net/apps/_**_trac/oscaf/<https://sourceforge.net/apps/__trac/oscaf/>
> > >
> > > <https://sourceforge.net/apps/**trac/oscaf/<https://sourceforge.net/apps/trac/oscaf/>
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Ok, thank you. I will add a ticket.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On Thu, Jun 7, 2012 at 7:59 PM, Ignacio Serantes <kde@aynoa.net
> > > <mailto:kde@aynoa.net>
> > > <mailto:kde@aynoa.net <mailto:kde@aynoa.net>>> wrote:
> > >
> > > Hi,
> > >
> > > I detect next issues with music albums scanning flac and mp3
> > > formats:
> > >
> > > 1) Performers:
> > >
> > > * mp3: supports it but it wrongly adding nmm:albumArtist
> > > too and
> > >
> > > this must be related to nmm:MusicAlbum.
> > > * flac: only adds one performer, the last added to the
> > > file?.
> > >
> > > nmm:musicArtist it's not imported and an error is
> > > launched:
> > > "Cannot set values for abstract property
> > > 'http://www.semanticdesktop.__**org/ontologies/2009/02/19/nmm#**
> > > __albumArtist
> > > <http://www.semanticdesktop.**org/ontologies/2009/02/19/nmm#**
> > > albumArtist<http://www.semanticdesktop.org/ontologies/2009/02/19/nmm#albumArtist>
> > >
> > > > '
> > > <http://www.semanticdesktop.__**org/ontologies/2009/02/19/nmm#**
> > > __albumArtist
> > >
> > > <http://www.semanticdesktop.**org/ontologies/2009/02/19/nmm#**
> > > albumArtist<http://www.semanticdesktop.org/ontologies/2009/02/19/nmm#albumArtist>
> > >
> > > > '>.".
> > >
> > > Solution:
> > >
> > > * 0 to n nmm:albumArtist resources must be added to
> > > nmm:MusicAlbum.
> > > * 0 to n nmm:performer resources must be added to
> > > nmm:MusicPiece.
> > >
> > >
> > > 2) Albums:
> > >
> > > * there is no url in nmm:MusicAlbum so two different
> > > albums with
> > >
> > > same name are considered one unique resource.
> > > * determine album url is tricky, you need to obtain the
> > > url from a
> > >
> > > track, a method complicated because previous problem.
> > >
> > > Solution:
> > >
> > > * add nie:url to albums.
> > > * two albums with same name but different path are different
> > >
> > > albums. This have a side effect with sets if sets are in
> > > different paths, but I think is better that sets are
> > > considered
> > > different albums, than two different albums are the same
> > > resource. On the other side, this could be handle with
> > > some
> > > smart path detection assuming some kind of organization
> > > with
> > > paths. Other solution could be using nmm:albumArtis to
> > > determine
> > > if two albums are different but, then we have the
> > > problem with
> > > various artists compilations.
> > > * added nfo:depiction as a cover, an image that could be
> > > handled
> > > by Bangarang or Nepoogle.
> > > * maybe more nfo:depiction for scans?
> > >
> > >
> > > 3) Genres:
> > >
> > > * mp3: is not working.
> > > * flac: works fine, supporting unlimited genres.
> > >
> > > Solution:
> > >
> > > * bug with mp3 files must be fixed.
> > >
> > >
> > > 4) Sets:
> > >
> > > * there is no total tracks per set.
> > > * the total tracks is equal to the total tracks number in
> > > the last
> > > track scanned.
> > >
> > > Solution:
> > >
> > > * a solution similar as seasons in tvshows.
> > > * a total tracks and a total tracks per set must be handled.
> > >
> > >
> > > I'm only using flac and mp3 so the same or other issues
> > > could be in
> > > other music formats.
> > >
> > > Sets problems is a minor issue, but the other three, must be
> > > fixed.
> > >
> > > As practically all my music is in flac format I will try to
> > > fix
> > > problems 1 and 2 in flac analyzer, I'm crossing my fingers
> > > because
> > > is C++, but I wish to hear comments/suggestions before begin
> > > to code.
> > >
> > > --
> > > Best wishes,
> > > Ignacio
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > Best wishes,
> > > Ignacio
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ______________________________**___________________
> > > Nepomuk mailing list
> > > Nepomuk@kde.org <mailto:Nepomuk@kde.org>
> > > https://mail.kde.org/mailman/_**_listinfo/nepomuk<https://mail.kde.org/mailman/__listinfo/nepomuk>
> > > <https://mail.kde.org/mailman/**listinfo/nepomuk<https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/nepomuk>
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > ______________________________**___________________
> > > Nepomuk mailing list
> > > Nepomuk@kde.org <mailto:Nepomuk@kde.org>
> > > https://mail.kde.org/mailman/_**_listinfo/nepomuk<https://mail.kde.org/mailman/__listinfo/nepomuk>
> > >
> > > <https://mail.kde.org/mailman/**listinfo/nepomuk<https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/nepomuk>
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > Best wishes,
> > > Ignacio
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ______________________________**_________________
> > > Nepomuk mailing list
> > > Nepomuk@kde.org
> > > https://mail.kde.org/mailman/**listinfo/nepomuk<https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/nepomuk>
> > >
> > ______________________________**_________________
> > Nepomuk mailing list
> > Nepomuk@kde.org
> > https://mail.kde.org/mailman/**listinfo/nepomuk<https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/nepomuk>
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Best wishes,
> Ignacio
>
>
>
--
Best wishes,
Ignacio
[Attachment #5 (text/html)]
Well, I forgot classic music so I was wrong \
:P.<div><br></div><div>nmm:albumPerformer, with a cardinality 0:n is totally right. \
It's not handled by id3 tags but for classic music is in several cases the main \
difference between two music albums.<br>
<br><div class="gmail_quote">On Wed, Jun 13, 2012 at 12:18 PM, Ignacio Serantes <span \
dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:kde@aynoa.net" \
target="_blank">kde@aynoa.net</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote \
class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc \
solid;padding-left:1ex">
<br><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div><div class="h5">On Wed, Jun 13, 2012 at 11:27 \
AM, Sebastian Trüg <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:sebastian@trueg.de" \
target="_blank">sebastian@trueg.de</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote \
class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc \
solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div>On 06/13/2012 11:04 AM, Ignacio Serantes wrote:<br>
</div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc \
solid;padding-left:1ex"><div> Hi,<br>
<br>
On Wed, Jun 13, 2012 at 10:52 AM, Sebastian Trüg <<a \
href="mailto:sebastian@trueg.de" \
target="_blank">sebastian@trueg.de</a><br></div><div> <mailto:<a \
href="mailto:sebastian@trueg.de" target="_blank">sebastian@trueg.de</a>>> \
wrote:<br> <br>
On 06/10/2012 08:32 PM, Ignacio Serantes wrote:<br>
<br>
I brief update status.<br>
<br>
1) I just fix multiple performers bug in flac analyzer.<br>
<br>
2) nmm:albumArtist seems to be related to DB structure and is not a<br>
coding bug. I just added nmm:albumArtist to SDO and now there is a<br>
nmm:albumArtist in nmm:MusicAlbum. This is the code I added:<br>
nmm:albumArtist<br>
a rdf:Property, nrl:DefiningProperty ;<br>
rdfs:subPropertyOf nco:contributor ;<br>
rdfs:label "album artist" ;<br>
rdfs:comment "Album artist" ;<br>
rdfs:domain nmm:MusicAlbum ;<br>
rdfs:range nco:Contact .<br>
<br>
<br>
This looks good. I am only concerned about having performer and<br>
producer on the tracks and artist on the album. Shouldn't that be in<br>
sync somehow? After all an album is also produced, right? A<br>
compilation has a producer and each track has a possibly different<br>
producer...<br>
<br>
<br>
This is right but as there is no tag for album producer this information<br>
can not be obtained from the music file so this is outside my actual<br>
goals. Album producers can be obtained using a query, as I'm doing in<br>
Nepoogle for album performers.<br>
</div></blockquote>
<br>
What I mean is we need nmm:albumProducer and nmm:albumPerformer. What do you \
think?<br></blockquote><div><br></div></div></div><div>nmm:albumProducer don't \
bothers but I'm not sure about nmm:albumPerformer. Performer is the \
"performer" and not the album artist, yes my Engrish is bad. An album \
artist is a good field because and album always have an associated artist: Queen, ELO \
or Various artists, but in the real world there is not a performer associated with \
the album but is associated to music piece.<br>
<br>Album producer is not the same case because, sometimes, there is a general album \
producer and other producers for music pieces. So album producer and artist producer \
are the same case but not for performers, lyricists or composers. It's right that \
many times performers, lyricist or composers are the same for all the music album but \
I still consider that this are music piece fields.<br>
<br></div><div><div class="h5"><div> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" \
style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"> <br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc \
solid;padding-left:1ex"><div> <br>
<br>
<br>
I will upload a patch to Review Board for the first one but,<br>
what must I<br>
do with the second one?<br>
<br>
<br>
The normal approach is to create a ticket at<br></div>
<a href="https://sourceforge.net/apps/__trac/oscaf/" \
target="_blank">https://sourceforge.net/apps/_<u></u>_trac/oscaf/</a><div><br>
<<a href="https://sourceforge.net/apps/trac/oscaf/" \
target="_blank">https://sourceforge.net/apps/<u></u>trac/oscaf/</a>><br> <br>
<br>
Ok, thank you. I will add a ticket.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
On Thu, Jun 7, 2012 at 7:59 PM, Ignacio Serantes <<a \
href="mailto:kde@aynoa.net" target="_blank">kde@aynoa.net</a><br>
<mailto:<a href="mailto:kde@aynoa.net" \
target="_blank">kde@aynoa.net</a>><br></div><div> <mailto:<a \
href="mailto:kde@aynoa.net" target="_blank">kde@aynoa.net</a> <mailto:<a \
href="mailto:kde@aynoa.net" target="_blank">kde@aynoa.net</a>>>> wrote:<br> \
<br> Hi,<br>
<br>
I detect next issues with music albums scanning flac and mp3<br>
formats:<br>
<br>
1) Performers:<br>
<br>
* mp3: supports it but it wrongly adding nmm:albumArtist<br>
too and<br>
<br>
this must be related to nmm:MusicAlbum.<br>
* flac: only adds one performer, the last added to the \
file?.<br> <br>
nmm:musicArtist it's not imported and an error is \
launched:<br> "Cannot set values for abstract property<br></div>
'<a href="http://www.semanticdesktop." \
target="_blank">http://www.semanticdesktop.</a>__<u></u>org/ontologies/2009/02/19/nmm#<u></u>__albumArtist<br>
<<a href="http://www.semanticdesktop.org/ontologies/2009/02/19/nmm#albumArtist" \
target="_blank">http://www.semanticdesktop.<u></u>org/ontologies/2009/02/19/nmm#<u></u>albumArtist</a>>'<br>
<<a href="http://www.semanticdesktop." \
target="_blank">http://www.semanticdesktop.</a>__<u></u>org/ontologies/2009/02/19/nmm#<u></u>__albumArtist<div><div><br>
<<a href="http://www.semanticdesktop.org/ontologies/2009/02/19/nmm#albumArtist" \
target="_blank">http://www.semanticdesktop.<u></u>org/ontologies/2009/02/19/nmm#<u></u>albumArtist</a>>'>.".<br>
<br>
Solution:<br>
<br>
* 0 to n nmm:albumArtist resources must be added to<br>
nmm:MusicAlbum.<br>
* 0 to n nmm:performer resources must be added to<br>
nmm:MusicPiece.<br>
<br>
<br>
2) Albums:<br>
<br>
* there is no url in nmm:MusicAlbum so two different<br>
albums with<br>
<br>
same name are considered one unique resource.<br>
* determine album url is tricky, you need to obtain the<br>
url from a<br>
<br>
track, a method complicated because previous problem.<br>
<br>
Solution:<br>
<br>
* add nie:url to albums.<br>
* two albums with same name but different path are different<br>
<br>
albums. This have a side effect with sets if sets are in<br>
different paths, but I think is better that sets are<br>
considered<br>
different albums, than two different albums are the same<br>
resource. On the other side, this could be handle with \
some<br>
smart path detection assuming some kind of organization \
with<br>
paths. Other solution could be using nmm:albumArtis to<br>
determine<br>
if two albums are different but, then we have the<br>
problem with<br>
various artists compilations.<br>
* added nfo:depiction as a cover, an image that could be<br>
handled<br>
by Bangarang or Nepoogle.<br>
* maybe more nfo:depiction for scans?<br>
<br>
<br>
3) Genres:<br>
<br>
* mp3: is not working.<br>
* flac: works fine, supporting unlimited genres.<br>
<br>
Solution:<br>
<br>
* bug with mp3 files must be fixed.<br>
<br>
<br>
4) Sets:<br>
<br>
* there is no total tracks per set.<br>
* the total tracks is equal to the total tracks number in<br>
the last<br>
track scanned.<br>
<br>
Solution:<br>
<br>
* a solution similar as seasons in tvshows.<br>
* a total tracks and a total tracks per set must be handled.<br>
<br>
<br>
I'm only using flac and mp3 so the same or other issues<br>
could be in<br>
other music formats.<br>
<br>
Sets problems is a minor issue, but the other three, must be<br>
fixed.<br>
<br>
As practically all my music is in flac format I will try to fix<br>
problems 1 and 2 in flac analyzer, I'm crossing my fingers<br>
because<br>
is C++, but I wish to hear comments/suggestions before begin<br>
to code.<br>
<br>
--<br>
Best wishes,<br>
Ignacio<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
--<br>
Best wishes,<br>
Ignacio<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br></div></div>
______________________________<u></u>___________________<br>
Nepomuk mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:Nepomuk@kde.org" target="_blank">Nepomuk@kde.org</a> \
<mailto:<a href="mailto:Nepomuk@kde.org" \
target="_blank">Nepomuk@kde.org</a>><br>
<a href="https://mail.kde.org/mailman/__listinfo/nepomuk" \
target="_blank">https://mail.kde.org/mailman/_<u></u>_listinfo/nepomuk</a><br>
<<a href="https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/nepomuk" \
target="_blank">https://mail.kde.org/mailman/<u></u>listinfo/nepomuk</a>><br> <br>
______________________________<u></u>___________________<br>
Nepomuk mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:Nepomuk@kde.org" target="_blank">Nepomuk@kde.org</a> \
<mailto:<a href="mailto:Nepomuk@kde.org" \
target="_blank">Nepomuk@kde.org</a>><br>
<a href="https://mail.kde.org/mailman/__listinfo/nepomuk" \
target="_blank">https://mail.kde.org/mailman/_<u></u>_listinfo/nepomuk</a><div><br>
<<a href="https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/nepomuk" \
target="_blank">https://mail.kde.org/mailman/<u></u>listinfo/nepomuk</a>><br> <br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
--<br>
Best wishes,<br>
Ignacio<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
______________________________<u></u>_________________<br>
Nepomuk mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:Nepomuk@kde.org" target="_blank">Nepomuk@kde.org</a><br>
<a href="https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/nepomuk" \
target="_blank">https://mail.kde.org/mailman/<u></u>listinfo/nepomuk</a><br> \
</div></blockquote><div><div> \
______________________________<u></u>_________________<br> Nepomuk mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:Nepomuk@kde.org" target="_blank">Nepomuk@kde.org</a><br>
<a href="https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/nepomuk" \
target="_blank">https://mail.kde.org/mailman/<u></u>listinfo/nepomuk</a><br> \
</div></div></blockquote></div></div></div><span class="HOEnZb"><font \
color="#888888"><br><br clear="all"><div><br></div>-- <br>Best \
wishes,<div>Ignacio</div><div><br></div><br> </font></span></blockquote></div><br><br \
clear="all"><div><br></div>-- <br>Best wishes,<div>Ignacio</div><div><br></div><br> \
</div>
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