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List: mpls
Subject: Re: [mpls] Continuing with my comments on draft-decraene-mpls-slid-encoded-entropy-label-id
From: <bruno.decraene () orange ! com>
Date: 2022-01-27 10:03:11
Message-ID: 18452_1643277791_61F26DDF_18452_180_1_7c771241ef0842148864a7af02deb0f4 () orange ! com
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Hi Greg,
Thank you for the useful discussion (at least to me) on indicators within t=
he stack as proposed by section 2 of draft-decraene-mpls-slid-encoded-entro=
py-label-id
The extension that I've been referring to encode data has just been publish=
ed: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-jags-mpls-ext-hdr-entropy-l=
bl
Review is equally welcomed.
Regards,
--Bruno
Orange Restricted
From: Greg Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com>
Sent: Saturday, January 22, 2022 10:34 PM
To: DECRAENE Bruno INNOV/NET <bruno.decraene@orange.com>
Cc: mpls <mpls@ietf.org>; pals@ietf.org; DetNet WG <detnet@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [mpls] Continuing with my comments on draft-decraene-mpls-slid=
-encoded-entropy-label-id
Hi Bruno,
thank you for your detailed response to my notes. I am looking forward to t=
he new version of the draft and continued discussion.
Regards,
Greg
On Fri, Jan 21, 2022 at 9:57 AM <bruno.decraene@orange.com<mailto:bruno.dec=
raene@orange.com>> wrote:
Hi Greg,
Thank you for the follow up. Please see inline [Bruno2]
Orange Restricted
From: Greg Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com<mailto:gregimirsky@gmail.com>>
Sent: Friday, January 21, 2022 2:09 AM
To: DECRAENE Bruno INNOV/NET <bruno.decraene@orange.com<mailto:bruno.decrae=
ne@orange.com>>
Cc: mpls <mpls@ietf.org<mailto:mpls@ietf.org>>; pals@ietf.org<mailto:pals@i=
etf.org>; DetNet WG <detnet@ietf.org<mailto:detnet@ietf.org>>
Subject: Re: [mpls] Continuing with my comments on draft-decraene-mpls-slid=
-encoded-entropy-label-id
Hi Bruno,
thank you for your kind consideration of my comments. Please find follow-up=
notes in-line below under the GIM>> tag.
Regards,
Greg
On Mon, Jan 17, 2022 at 8:24 AM <bruno.decraene@orange.com<mailto:bruno.dec=
raene@orange.com>> wrote:
Hi Greg, all
Greg, thanks for taking the time to read the draft and comment.
WG, for context, we are discussing a subset of the draft: the ability to ad=
vertise indicator as part of the existing Entropy Label TTL as described in=
section 2 of the draft (it's 1 page):
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-decraene-mpls-slid-encoded-entr=
opy-label-id-02#section-2
Please see inline [Bruno]
Orange Restricted
From: mpls <mpls-bounces@ietf.org<mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org>> On Behalf =
Of Greg Mirsky
Sent: Thursday, January 13, 2022 11:41 PM
To: mpls <mpls@ietf.org<mailto:mpls@ietf.org>>; pals@ietf.org<mailto:pals@i=
etf.org>; DetNet WG <detnet@ietf.org<mailto:detnet@ietf.org>>
Subject: [mpls] Continuing with my comments on draft-decraene-mpls-slid-enc=
oded-entropy-label-id
Hi Bruno, et al.
Thank you for presenting this work at the MPLS Open DT meeting today. Below=
please find the summary of my comments and questions with the additional t=
houghts that came after we've closed the call. I greatly appreciate the con=
sideration and opinions of the authors and the group.
* Compatibility with nodes that support only RFC 6790.
* If the proposed indicators are used to signal the presence of an I=
SD, that seems to create a problem for an RFC6790-only node as it might not=
be able to process the ISD.
[Bruno]
- Draft(*) extends the use of the Entropy Label TTL field which is essentia=
lly specified as a Reserved field in RFC 6790. Hence draft is backward comp=
atible with RFC 6790.
GIM>> I agree, that if the mechanism is limited to re-use of the TTL field =
of the label element that includes the entropy label, then there are no pos=
sible issues. But then, how useful is a mechanism that allows for only seve=
n indicators of processing instructions? Of course, if the model does not s=
upport a combination of instructions, then the new field might be viewed no=
t as a set of flags but as a scalar with each value defining a different pr=
ocessing type.
[Bruno2] Thank you for acknowledging that it would work. In terms of possib=
le usages, the draft lists 3 ones in sections 3, 4 and 5.
- Draft does not specify ISD so this is out of scope of this draft. That be=
en said:
- You are right that before sending ISD in a new extension, the capability=
for the receiver/egress to support this ISD needs to be known by the sende=
r. This is priori required by all ISD solution.
- You seemed to assume that ISD are always necessary but IMHO indicators an=
d ISD are two different extensions and Indicators may be used without ISD e=
xtensions .e.g., cf sections 4, 5, 3 of the draft
GIM>> I agree, that in some scenarios the ability to signal processing in a=
label stack is sufficient and useful. Though, having a method of doing a s=
ubset of what can be done with Ancillary Data and Action indication seems l=
ike an unnecessary overlap.
[Bruno2] Thank you for the agreement. If one/a use case wants to advertise =
more data, it's possible to extend the proposal (actually one should be pub=
lished shortly)
* If one of the indicators is to be used to signal the presence of t=
he extension, that, similarly to the scenario above, might not be correctly=
processed by an RFC6790-only node.
[Bruno] idem
* Scaling
* If the proposed method to signal the ancillary data is used in, fo=
r example, a strict explicit routing environment, the Entropy Label is not =
needed. If that is the case, using the indicators, as described in the draf=
t, seems to waste 20 bits in a label element compared to the mechanism prop=
osed in draft-kompella-mpls-mspl4fa.
[Bruno] And for all other cases, the scaling is very good as we carry indic=
ators with zero extra label. So the net benefit is dependent of the relativ=
e usage of strict explicit routing traffic vs traffic which can be ECMP. In=
my environment, the latter is much more prevalent, hence the net benefit i=
s positive.
GIM>> I agree that there are cases and scenarios when seven indicators can =
solve the operator's immediate problems. Though I believe that a future-pro=
of solution is preferable.
[Bruno2] If needed, I believe that this proposal may be extended for the us=
e cases that would require more. I see no reason for such extension to not =
be equally future-proof.
Regards,
--Bruno
PS : by < draft > I mean section 2 of the draft as this is the scope of the=
discussion.
Regards,
-Bruno
Regards,
Greg
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<body lang="FR" link="blue" vlink="purple" \
style="tab-interval:35.4pt;word-wrap:break-word"> <div class="WordSection1">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span \
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Hi \
Greg,<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class="MsoNormal"><span \
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" \
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;mso-ansi-language:EN-US;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Thank \
you for the useful discussion (at least to me) on indicators within the stack as \
proposed by section 2 of \
draft-decraene-mpls-slid-encoded-entropy-label-id<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p \
class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" \
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;mso-ansi-language:EN-US;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">The \
extension that I’ve been referring to encode data has just been published: <a \
href="https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-jags-mpls-ext-hdr-entropy-lbl"> \
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-jags-mpls-ext-hdr-entropy-lbl</a></span><span \
lang="EN-US" style="mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p> <p \
class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" \
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;mso-ansi-language:EN-US;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" \
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;mso-ansi-language:EN-US;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Review \
is equally welcomed.<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" \
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;mso-ansi-language:EN-US;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" \
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;mso-ansi-language:EN-US;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Regards,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" \
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;mso-ansi-language:EN-US;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">--Bruno<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" \
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;mso-ansi-language:EN-US;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="msipfootered91ed98" align="center" style="margin:0cm;text-align:center">
<span style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica 75 \
Bold",sans-serif;color:#ED7D31">Orange Restricted</span><o:p></o:p></p> <div \
style="border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 4.0pt"> <div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New \
Roman"">From:</span></b><span style="mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New \
Roman""> Greg Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com> <br>
<b>Sent:</b> Saturday, January 22, 2022 10:34 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> DECRAENE Bruno INNOV/NET <bruno.decraene@orange.com><br>
<b>Cc:</b> mpls <mpls@ietf.org>; pals@ietf.org; DetNet WG \
<detnet@ietf.org><br> <b>Subject:</b> Re: [mpls] Continuing with my comments on \
draft-decraene-mpls-slid-encoded-entropy-label-id<o:p></o:p></span></p> </div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Hi Bruno,<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">thank you for your detailed response to my notes. I am looking \
forward to the new version of the draft and continued discussion.<o:p></o:p></p> \
</div> <div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Regards,<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Greg<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On Fri, Jan 21, 2022 at 9:57 AM <<a \
href="mailto:bruno.decraene@orange.com">bruno.decraene@orange.com</a>> \
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p> </div>
<blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC \
1.0pt;mso-border-left-alt:solid #CCCCCC .75pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm \
6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5.0pt"> <div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span \
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">Hi \
Greg,</span><o:p></o:p></p> <p class="MsoNormal" \
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span \
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" \
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-US" \
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">Thank \
you for the follow up. Please see inline [Bruno2]</span><o:p></o:p></p> <p \
class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span \
lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" \
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p> <p \
class="gmail-m2597093276465362198msipfootered91ed98" align="center" \
style="margin:0cm;text-align:center"> <span \
style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica 75 \
Bold",sans-serif;color:#ED7D31">Orange Restricted</span><o:p></o:p></p> <div \
style="border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 4.0pt"> <div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm">
<p class="MsoNormal" \
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-outline-level:1"> \
<b>From:</b> Greg Mirsky <<a href="mailto:gregimirsky@gmail.com" \
target="_blank">gregimirsky@gmail.com</a>> <br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, January 21, 2022 2:09 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> DECRAENE Bruno INNOV/NET <<a href="mailto:bruno.decraene@orange.com" \
target="_blank">bruno.decraene@orange.com</a>><br> <b>Cc:</b> mpls <<a \
href="mailto:mpls@ietf.org" target="_blank">mpls@ietf.org</a>>; <a \
href="mailto:pals@ietf.org" target="_blank">pals@ietf.org</a>; DetNet WG <<a \
href="mailto:detnet@ietf.org" target="_blank">detnet@ietf.org</a>><br> \
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [mpls] Continuing with my comments on \
draft-decraene-mpls-slid-encoded-entropy-label-id<o:p></o:p></p> </div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" \
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p> \
<div> <div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">Hi \
Bruno,<o:p></o:p></p> <div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">thank \
you for your kind consideration of my comments. Please find follow-up notes \
in-line below under the GIM>> tag.<o:p></o:p></p> </div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" \
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p> \
</div> <div>
<p class="MsoNormal" \
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">Regards,<o:p></o:p></p> \
</div> <div>
<p class="MsoNormal" \
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">Greg<o:p></o:p></p> </div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" \
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p> \
<div> <div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">On \
Mon, Jan 17, 2022 at 8:24 AM <<a href="mailto:bruno.decraene@orange.com" \
target="_blank">bruno.decraene@orange.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p> </div>
<blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm \
6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5.0pt"> <div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span \
lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">Hi \
Greg, all</span><o:p></o:p></p> <p class="MsoNormal" \
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-US" \
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" \
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-US" \
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">Greg, \
thanks for taking the time to read the draft and comment.</span><o:p></o:p></p> <p \
class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span \
lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" \
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-US" \
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">WG, \
for context, we are discussing a subset of the draft: the ability to advertise \
indicator as part of the existing Entropy Label TTL as described in section 2 of the \
draft (it’s 1 page):</span><o:p></o:p></p> <p class="MsoNormal" \
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-US" \
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><a \
href="https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-decraene-mpls-slid-encoded-entropy-label-id-02#section-2" \
target="_blank">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-decraene-mpls-slid-encoded-entropy-label-id-02#section-2</a></span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" \
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-US" \
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" \
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-US" \
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">Please \
see inline [Bruno]</span><o:p></o:p></p> <p class="MsoNormal" \
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-US" \
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" \
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p> <p \
class="gmail-m2597093276465362198gmail-m4510681083406862882msipfootered91ed98" \
align="center" style="margin:0cm;text-align:center"> <span \
style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica 75 \
Bold",sans-serif;color:#ED7D31">Orange Restricted</span><o:p></o:p></p> <div \
style="border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 4.0pt"> <div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm">
<p class="MsoNormal" \
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-outline-level:1"> \
<b>From:</b> mpls <<a href="mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org" \
target="_blank">mpls-bounces@ietf.org</a>> <b>On Behalf Of </b>Greg Mirsky<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, January 13, 2022 11:41 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> mpls <<a href="mailto:mpls@ietf.org" \
target="_blank">mpls@ietf.org</a>>; <a href="mailto:pals@ietf.org" \
target="_blank">pals@ietf.org</a>; DetNet WG <<a href="mailto:detnet@ietf.org" \
target="_blank">detnet@ietf.org</a>><br> <b>Subject:</b> [mpls] Continuing with my \
comments on draft-decraene-mpls-slid-encoded-entropy-label-id<o:p></o:p></p> </div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" \
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p> \
<div> <div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">Hi \
Bruno, et al.<o:p></o:p></p> <div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">Thank \
you for presenting this work at the MPLS Open DT meeting today. Below please find the \
summary of my comments and questions with the additional thoughts that came after \
we've closed the call. I greatly appreciate the consideration and opinions of the \
authors and the group.<o:p></o:p></p> </div>
<div>
<ul type="disc">
<li class="MsoNormal" \
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l4 level1 \
lfo1;tab-stops:list 36.0pt"> Compatibility with nodes that support only RFC \
6790.<o:p></o:p></li></ul> <ul type="disc">
<ul type="circle">
<li class="MsoNormal" \
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l1 level2 \
lfo2;tab-stops:list 72.0pt"> If the proposed indicators are used to signal the \
presence of an ISD, that seems to create a problem for an RFC6790-only node as it \
might not be able to process the ISD.<o:p></o:p></li></ul> </ul>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span \
lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">[Bruno]</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" \
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-US" \
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">- \
Draft(*) extends the use of the Entropy Label TTL field which is essentially \
specified as a Reserved field in RFC 6790. Hence draft is backward compatible with \
RFC 6790.</span><o:p></o:p></p> </div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" \
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">GIM>> I agree, that \
if the mechanism is limited to re-use of the TTL field of the label element that \
includes the entropy label, then there are no possible issues. But then, how useful \
is a mechanism that allows for only seven indicators of processing instructions? Of \
course, if the model does not support a combination of instructions, then the new \
field might be viewed not as a set of flags but as a scalar with each value defining \
a different processing type.<o:p></o:p></p> <p class="MsoNormal" \
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-US" \
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">[Bruno2] \
Thank you for acknowledging that it would work. In terms of possible usages, the \
draft lists 3 ones in sections 3, 4 and 5. </span><o:p></o:p></p> </div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span \
lang="EN-US" style="mso-ansi-language:EN-US"> </span><o:p></o:p></p> </div>
<blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm \
6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5.0pt"> <div>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 4.0pt">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span \
lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">- \
Draft does not specify ISD so this is out of scope of this draft. That been \
said:</span><o:p></o:p></p> <p class="MsoNormal" \
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:5.25pt;text-indent:30.15pt">
<span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">- \
You are right that before sending ISD in a new extension, the capability for the \
receiver/egress to support this ISD needs to be known by the sender. This is priori \
required by all ISD solution.</span><o:p></o:p></p> <p class="MsoNormal" \
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:10.5pt;text-indent:30.15pt">
<span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">- \
You seemed to assume that ISD are always necessary but IMHO indicators and ISD are \
two different extensions and Indicators may be used without ISD \
extensions
.e.g., cf sections 4, 5, 3 of the draft</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" \
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">GIM>> I agree, that \
in some scenarios the ability to signal processing in a label stack is sufficient and \
useful. Though, having a method of doing a subset of what can be done with Ancillary \
Data and Action indication seems like an unnecessary overlap.<o:p></o:p></p> <p \
class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span \
lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">[Bruno2] \
Thank you for the agreement. If one/a use case wants to advertise more data, \
it’s possible to extend the proposal (actually one should be published \
shortly)</span><o:p></o:p></p> </div>
<blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm \
6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5.0pt"> <div>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 4.0pt">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<ul type="disc">
<ul type="circle">
<li class="MsoNormal" \
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l3 level2 \
lfo3;tab-stops:list 72.0pt"> <span lang="EN-US" style="mso-ansi-language:EN-US">If \
one of the indicators is to be used to signal the presence of the \
extension, that, similarly to the scenario above, might not be correctly processed by \
an RFC6790-only node.</span><o:p></o:p></li></ul> </ul>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span \
lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">[Bruno] \
idem </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<ul type="disc">
<li class="MsoNormal" \
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l0 level1 \
lfo4;tab-stops:list 36.0pt"> Scaling<o:p></o:p></li></ul>
<ul type="disc">
<ul type="circle">
<li class="MsoNormal" \
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l2 level2 \
lfo5;tab-stops:list 72.0pt"> If the proposed method to signal the ancillary data is \
used in, for example, a strict explicit routing environment, the Entropy Label is not \
needed. If that is the case, using the indicators, as described in the draft, seems \
to waste 20 bits in a label element compared to the mechanism proposed in \
draft-kompella-mpls-mspl4fa.<o:p></o:p></li></ul> </ul>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span \
lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">[Bruno] \
And for all other cases, the scaling is very good as we carry indicators with zero \
extra label. So the net benefit is dependent of the relative usage of strict explicit \
routing traffic vs traffic which can be ECMP. In my environment, the latter is much \
more prevalent, hence the net benefit is positive.</span><o:p></o:p></p> </div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" \
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">GIM>> I agree that \
there are cases and scenarios when seven indicators can solve the \
operator's immediate problems. Though I believe that a future-proof solution is \
preferable.<o:p></o:p></p> </div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span \
lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">[Bruno2] \
If needed, I believe that this proposal may be extended for the use cases that would \
require more. I see no reason for such extension to not be equally \
future-proof.</span><o:p></o:p></p> <p class="MsoNormal" \
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-US" \
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" \
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-US" \
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">Regards,</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" \
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-US" \
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">--Bruno</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm \
6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5.0pt"> <div>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 4.0pt">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span \
lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" \
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-US" \
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">PS : \
by « draft » I mean section 2 of the draft as this is the scope \
of the discussion.</span><o:p></o:p></p> <p class="MsoNormal" \
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-US" \
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">Regards,</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" \
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-US" \
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">-Bruno</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span \
lang="EN-US" style="mso-ansi-language:EN-US">Regards,</span><o:p></o:p></p> </div>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" \
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">Greg<o:p></o:p></p> </div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<pre>_________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre> <o:p></o:p></pre>
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</div>
<pre>_________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre>Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations \
confidentielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc<o:p></o:p></pre> <pre>pas etre \
diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez recu ce message par \
erreur, veuillez le signaler<o:p></o:p></pre> <pre>a l'expediteur et le detruire \
ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les messages electroniques etant susceptibles \
d'alteration,<o:p></o:p></pre> <pre>Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message \
a ete altere, deforme ou falsifie. Merci.<o:p></o:p></pre> \
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre> <pre>This message and its attachments may contain \
confidential or privileged information that may be protected by law;<o:p></o:p></pre> \
<pre>they should not be distributed, used or copied without \
authorisation.<o:p></o:p></pre> <pre>If you have received this email in error, please \
notify the sender and delete this message and its attachments.<o:p></o:p></pre> \
<pre>As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable for messages that have been \
modified, changed or falsified.<o:p></o:p></pre> <pre>Thank you.<o:p></o:p></pre>
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</blockquote>
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</div>
<PRE>_________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations confidentielles ou \
privilegiees et ne doivent donc pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans \
autorisation. Si vous avez recu ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler a \
l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les messages electroniques \
etant susceptibles d'alteration, Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a \
ete altere, deforme ou falsifie. Merci.
This message and its attachments may contain confidential or privileged information \
that may be protected by law; they should not be distributed, used or copied without \
authorisation. If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and \
delete this message and its attachments. As emails may be altered, Orange is not \
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