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List:       mandrake-cooker
Subject:    Re: [Cooker] Super user file manager menu entry
From:       mmodem00 () netvisao ! pt
Date:       2005-08-01 20:32:45
Message-ID: 41578.83.132.224.105.1122928365.squirrel () 83 ! 132 ! 224 ! 105
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> Michael Scherer wrote:
>> Le Lundi 01 Août 2005 13:12, Buchan Milne a écrit :
>>
>>>Michael Scherer wrote:
>
>>>>
>>>>Users taht want to run konqueror as root want to perform certain tasks,
>>>>such as editing /etc/passwd with kedit, but this is not the proper way
>>>> to
>>>>do it ( which should be running drakuser ).
>>>
>>>What about changing ownership of files/directories, setting permissions
>>>etc etc?
>>
>>
>> If we have sane default, this should not be a problem. If we do not
>> have,
>> then, the problem is the permission, not the lack of easy way to change
>> it.
>>
>> Of course, for specific needs, we may have to change them, but again, we
>> should have sane default for permissions.
>
> Specific needs will be quite common as soon as there is more than one
> user using a specific machine IMHO.
>
>> And if we don't, I think user
>> should report it instead of thinking how easy it was to change them and
>> that
>> there is no problem.
>
> We can't cater to everyone's file management desires IMHO.
>
>>>Should newbies *always* be forced to use console tools for this
>>>(and force them to learn both console usage and file permission concepts
>>>at the same time)?
>>
>>
>> K menu, "Run a command", Options , "run as another user" ?
>>
>> or, if they really need to do it often :
>>
>> drag the icons on the desktop, property , applications, advanced
>> options, run
>> as another user ?
>
> Is this in the documentation? It seems not ... (in the mandrake-doc*
> packages), so users will most likely hear from someone to use 'su' first
> ...
>
>
>> And what about gnome users, do they want to launch konqueror ?
>
> Well, we can restrict menus to KDE easily ...
>
>>>I am sure there are other applications (maybe once-off backup of some
>>>files not accessible as non-root to CD or similar, finding people
>>>abusing disk space with the konqueror "File Size View").
>>
>>
>> Then, for a backup, someone will ask to have a entry to run k3b as root
>> in
>> order to ease the backup of the whole /home subtree.
>
> Why, they can right-click on the directory from Konqueror and choose
> "Actions->Create Data CD with K3b".
>
>>
>>
>>>I could support making logging in as root really difficult while there
>>>was some easy way to get access to useful tools as root, but it's not
>>>really justifiable without them IMHO.
>>
>>
>> There is some tasks that need root privileges, yes, and that should not
>> require to run a shell, I agree with you.
>> But for those, I think that using "Run a command" is enough. It does
>> requires
>> to learn the concept of uid, and the name of the tool to run, which is
>> less
>> complex than shell + uid.
>>
>> Doing a drag and drop and changing the uid does not even requires the
>> concept
>> of command.
>>
>> And since it already exists on windows ( property of a shortcut,
>> advanced
>> options, run with different credentials ), it could even provides a
>> smoother
>> transition to users.
>>
>> And again, maybe we should provides dedicated tools instead of giving
>> full
>> privileges to use a file explorer bundled with a web navigator and a
>> media
>> player
>> (http://aseigo.blogspot.com/2005/07/kdes-file-dialog-is-movie-player.html
>> ).
>>
>>
>>
>>>Maybe I should make a trivial package that puts them back ...
>>
>>
>> Yes, this could be another solution, even if a package seems too much
>> for
>> something as simple as a shortcut on the desktop, as I explained before.
>>
>> And if you have to explain to users to do "urpmi blabla, goto to the
>> menu..."
>> instead of explaining "go to the menu, click this, type that", there is
>> almost no gain, imho.
>
>
> Menu->Configuration->Software Mangement etc ...
>
>>
>> By the way, I tried to run konqueror as root today ( with su ), and
>>
>> 1) it launched another instance of kat ( desktop search ) in my icons
>> bar
>
> If you had knemo installed, it would do the same (or, any kded app I
> think ...).
>
>> 2) it was not really happy with artsd and permission ( usual error
>> message )
>
> Both of these don't occur via kdesu ...
>
>> 3) I doubt I would have seen it was running as root if I had not changed
>> the
>> color of my windows, which mean that someone can forget it and then
>> reuse it
>> to surf the web, etc etc.
>
> Click the "Home" button?
>
> Maybe kdesu should kill applications (safely) after a timeout?
>
> But, this applies whether:
> 1)using 'su' (I won't recount the story of how a non-admin formatted the
> disk on a server when he thought it was his local USB flash disk) in a
> console
> 2)Starting an application as root via kdesu or "Run as .."
>
>> However, I do not have the problem 1 and 2 when using "Run a command".
>
> Indeed, which is why either users should get a menu entry, or the
> documentation should cover launching applications as root ... the menu
> entries which used to be present used kdesu ...

Is good to always have the option (a menu shortcut) that permits to run
konqueror as root, and for that is always needed a root pass like when u run
drakuser.
So far i still didnt get why mandrake as removed such shortcut and giving as
explanation that it can be run through a console as root, well for that
wouldnt be needed to exist menus at all!
-- 
Zé
Linux user #378762



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