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List: kwrite-devel
Subject: Re: Switching to Python 3
From: J._Pablo_Martín_Cobos <goinnn () gmail ! com>
Date: 2013-11-11 7:44:51
Message-ID: CALNyWLEEzAywFiEsNS1-34RFHH84WXFqzc+n+nnB6ovb77G_-w () mail ! gmail ! com
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2013/11/10 Philipp A. <flying-sheep@web.de>
> Hi!
>
> After my proposal to switch to Python3 was met more positively than
> expected, it seems to be a real possible goal.
> <#14241daccd269a12_>What it means for us
>
> For us, it means that afterwards, we can drop compatibility crutches, can
> use all Python stdlib features, and don't have to test 2 differently
> compiled versions of Kate anymore.
>
> It also means that Kate (when compiled with Pâté at all) depends on
> libpython3.x+ (where "x" has yet to be decided, but should be at least
> "2" imho, if not "3"), instead of on "that libpython which the packager
> feels like linking against"
> <#14241daccd269a12_>
>
Yes, we always say in my company: "Python 3 is Python 3.3"
> What it means for distributions
>
> There seem to be misconceptions about what "default python version in
> Ubuntu/Fedora/…" means.
>
> It's pretty easy: It's the version delivered on the ISO which system tools
> depend on.
>
> ¡ ¡ ¡ It's *not* the target of the symlink /usr/bin/python !!! Many
> distributions will likely never link python → python3, and still call
> Python 3 "default".
>
> This means e.g. Ubuntuâ½ ¹â¾ and Fedoraâ½ ²â¾ currently *don't have a default
> version*, as some system tools depend on 2 while others depend on 3. And
> to them, "switching" means to eliminate the need to ship Python 2 on the
> installation media, by porting all system tools to 3.
> <#14241daccd269a12_>
>
In Ubuntu, if you type in a terminal "python", you are run Python 2. If you
want you can say that this is not the default version... but when kate is
compilling kate use python 2 for this reason.
> What it means, combined
>
> This means that *currently*, any program that wants to minimize
> dependencies, and depends either on Python 2 or 3 can ship any way it
> wants, and *in the future*, such programs should ship depending on Python
> 3.
>
> That means that we (Kate) can switch to Python 3 *right now* without
> causing problems, if Ubuntu and Fedora are indicative of all distros.
>
If you do this change, a lot of end users stopped using kate. When I say
that this change is a bad idea, I don't think in me, I think in the end
users.
Normally before to do an important change, you should notify to the
community, and you should say something like this: "This feature is
deprecated, we remove it after three releases" (minimum next release).
Best regards,
Please, we have think in the end user, and I think that now we are thinking
in the developer. I understand that is better code only in a python
version, but of this way a lot of person will not use it.
--
Pablo MartÃn
------------------------------
>
> â½ ¹â¾ https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Python/3
> â½ ²â¾ https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/Python_3_as_Default#Scope
>
> _______________________________________________
> KWrite-Devel mailing list
> KWrite-Devel@kde.org
> https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kwrite-devel
>
>
[Attachment #5 (text/html)]
<div dir="ltr">2013/11/10 Philipp A. <span dir="ltr"><<a \
href="mailto:flying-sheep@web.de" \
target="_blank">flying-sheep@web.de</a>></span><br><div class="gmail_extra"><div \
class="gmail_quote"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px \
0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr"><div><p style="margin:1.2em 0px!important">Hi!</p>
<p style="margin:1.2em 0px!important">After my proposal to switch to Python3 was met \
more positively than expected, it seems to be a real possible goal.</p> <a \
href="#14241daccd269a12_" name="14241daccd269a12_what-it-means-for-us"></a><h2 \
style="margin:1.3em 0px \
1em;padding:0px;font-weight:bold;font-size:1.4em;border-bottom-width:1px;border-bottom-style:solid;border-bottom-color:rgb(204,204,204)">
What it means for us</h2>
<p style="margin:1.2em 0px!important">For us, it means that afterwards, we can drop \
compatibility crutches, can use all Python stdlib features, and don't have to test 2 \
differently compiled versions of Kate anymore.</p> <p style="margin:1.2em \
0px!important">It also means that Kate (when compiled with Pâté at all) depends on \
<code style="font-size:0.85em;font-family:Consolas,Inconsolata,Courier,monospace;margin:0px \
0.15em;padding:0px 0.3em;white-space:pre-wrap;border:1px solid \
rgb(234,234,234);background-color:rgb(248,248,248);border-top-left-radius:3px;border-t \
op-right-radius:3px;border-bottom-right-radius:3px;border-bottom-left-radius:3px;display:inline">libpython3.x</code>+ \
(where "x" has yet to be decided, but should be at least "2" imho, if not "3"), \
instead of on "that libpython which the packager feels like linking against"</p>
<a href="#14241daccd269a12_" \
name="14241daccd269a12_what-it-means-for-distributions"></a><h2 style="margin:1.3em \
0px 1em;padding:0px;font-weight:bold;font-size:1.4em;border-bottom-width:1px;border-bottom-style:solid;border-bottom-color:rgb(204,204,204)">
</h2></div></div></blockquote><div>Yes, we always say in my company: "Python 3 \
is Python 3.3"</div><div> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" \
style="margin:0px 0px 0px \
0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr"><div><h2 style="margin:1.3em 0px \
1em;padding:0px;font-weight:bold;font-size:1.4em;border-bottom-width:1px;border-bottom-style:solid;border-bottom-color:rgb(204,204,204)">What \
it means for distributions</h2>
<p style="margin:1.2em 0px!important">There seem to be misconceptions about what \
"default python version in Ubuntu/Fedora/…" means.</p> <p style="margin:1.2em \
0px!important">It's pretty easy: It's the version delivered on the ISO which system \
tools depend on.</p> <p style="margin:1.2em 0px!important"> ¡ ¡ ¡ It's <em>not</em> \
the target of the symlink <code \
style="font-size:0.85em;font-family:Consolas,Inconsolata,Courier,monospace;margin:0px \
0.15em;padding:0px 0.3em;white-space:pre-wrap;border:1px solid \
rgb(234,234,234);background-color:rgb(248,248,248);border-top-left-radius:3px;border-t \
op-right-radius:3px;border-bottom-right-radius:3px;border-bottom-left-radius:3px;display:inline">/usr/bin/python</code> \
!!! Many distributions will likely never link python → python3, and still call \
Python 3 "default".</p>
<p style="margin:1.2em 0px!important">This means e.g. Ubuntuâ½ ¹â¾ and Fedoraâ½ \
²â¾ currently <em>don't have a default version</em>, as some system tools depend on \
2 while others depend on 3. And to them, "switching" means to eliminate the need to \
ship Python 2 on the installation media, by porting all system tools to 3.</p>
<a href="#14241daccd269a12_" name="14241daccd269a12_what-it-means-combined"></a><h2 \
style="margin:1.3em 0px \
1em;padding:0px;font-weight:bold;font-size:1.4em;border-bottom-width:1px;border-bottom-style:solid;border-bottom-color:rgb(204,204,204)">
</h2></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>In Ubuntu, if you type in a \
terminal "python", you are run Python 2. If you want you can say that this \
is not the default version... but when kate is compilling kate use python 2 for this \
reason.</div> <div> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px \
0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex"><div \
dir="ltr"><div><h2 style="margin:1.3em 0px \
1em;padding:0px;font-weight:bold;font-size:1.4em;border-bottom-width:1px;border-bottom-style:solid;border-bottom-color:rgb(204,204,204)">
What it means, combined</h2>
<p style="margin:1.2em 0px!important">This means that <em>currently</em>, any program \
that wants to minimize dependencies, and depends either on Python 2 or 3 can ship any \
way it wants, and <em>in the future</em>, such programs should ship depending on \
Python 3.</p>
<p style="margin:1.2em 0px!important">That means that we (Kate) can switch to Python \
3 <em>right now</em> without causing problems, if Ubuntu and Fedora are indicative of \
all distros.</p></div></div></blockquote><div><br> </div><div>If you do this change, \
a lot of end users stopped using kate. When I say that this change is a bad idea, I \
don't think in me, I think in the end users.</div><div><br></div><div>Normally \
before to do an important change, you should notify to the community, and you should \
say something like this: "This feature is deprecated, we remove it after three \
releases" (minimum next release).<br> </div><div><br></div><div>Best \
regards,</div><div><br></div><div>Please, we have think in the end user, and I think \
that now we are thinking in the developer. I understand that is better code only in a \
python version, but of this way a lot of person will not use it.</div> <div> \
</div><div>--<br></div><div><br></div><div>Pablo \
MartÃn</div><div><br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px \
0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr"><div>
<hr>
<p style="margin:1.2em 0px!important">â½ ¹â¾ <a \
href="https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Python/3" \
target="_blank">https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Python/3</a><br>â½ ²â¾ <a \
href="https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/Python_3_as_Default#Scope" \
target="_blank">https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/Python_3_as_Default#Scope</a></p>
</div></div>
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<a href="mailto:KWrite-Devel@kde.org">KWrite-Devel@kde.org</a><br>
<a href="https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kwrite-devel" \
target="_blank">https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kwrite-devel</a><br> \
<br></blockquote></div><br></div></div>
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KWrite-Devel mailing list
KWrite-Devel@kde.org
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