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List: kstars-devel
Subject: Re: NGC Thumbnails
From: Valentin Boettcher <valentin () boettcher ! cf>
Date: 2017-04-15 6:25:09
Message-ID: f0e562ca-d4c7-44a2-99c2-a658464e2515 () typeapp ! com
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Yeah that would be cool.
Sent from BlueMail
On 15 Apr 2017, 3:27 PM, at 3:27 PM, "John S." <myxlflik@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Doesn't seem to be a lot of feedback right now. I guess it could be
> because of the weekend? Would you like to post a few of the bad
> examples and their NGC or IC numbers and I will see if I can do
> anything better with them?
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Kstars-devel <kstars-devel-bounces@kde.org> on behalf of Jasem
> Mutlaq <mutlaqja@ikarustech.com>
> Sent: Friday, April 14, 2017 10:34 AM
> To: KStars Development Mailing List
> Subject: Fwd: NGC Thumbnails
>
> Folks,
>
> We've been having discussions over generating NGC/IC thumbnails to be
> used in KStars detail dialog + observation planner. John, from INDI
> forums
> (http://indilib.org/forum/wish-list/2136-ngc-objects-thumbnails-for-object-planner.html?start=24#16162),
> spent a lot of time generating image file (200x200) for NGC and IC
> objects in KStars database. However, when inspecting the images, there
> were quite a few issues. Below is an email from John that discusses the
> limitation of the approach. I'd like to invite all the developers to
> chime in on their ideas on this topic.
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: John S. <myxlflik@hotmail.com<mailto:myxlflik@hotmail.com>>
> Date: Fri, Apr 14, 2017 at 2:50 PM
> Subject: Re: NGC Thumbnails
> To: Jasem Mutlaq
> <mutlaqja@ikarustech.com<mailto:mutlaqja@ikarustech.com>>
>
>
>
> Jasem,
>
>
> FYI - I have completed the IC pulls. They can be gotten here.
> https://1drv.ms/u/s!AnSnRFrNRtfXviLmrzlp6Ru6N7KZ
>
> [https://r1.res.office365.com/owa/prem/images/dc-generic_40.png]<https://1drv.ms/u/s!AnSnRFrNRtfXviLmrzlp6Ru6N7KZ>
> IC-Thumbnails.tar.gz<https://1drv.ms/u/s!AnSnRFrNRtfXviLmrzlp6Ru6N7KZ>
> Shared via OneDrive
>
>
>
>
>
> The images are straight from the NASA data. The ones that are out of
> 'out of focus' are likely the objects that are very small (less than
> two arc minutes in size). There is an automated way to pull them and
> compile them in RGB. The problem is that you either have to use all
> three channels from the lower resolution DSS survey or use 2 of the
> DSS2 channels (Red and Blue) and use the Green from DSS. It's
> relatively easy to pull the objects, but it does take time.
>
>
> I made some choices on parameters when doing the pulls.
>
> 200x200 pixels was the minimum thumbnail size. 1000x1000 was the
> maximum.
>
> 2 arcminx2arcmin is the closest resolution. This means all objects 2
> arcmin or smaller will be a 200x200 thumbnail scaled at 100
> pixels/arcmin
>
> I chose to scale this up linearly to 1000x1000 where a 10 arcmin object
> would be 1000x1000 and still be 100 pixels/arcmin
>
> For objects larger than this, they will be 1000x1000 where the scale
> will be the number of arcmin wide or tall the object is.
>
>
> As for the quality, I know a couple of the images are just bad because
> of the survey data. I know there is room for improvement here, but we
> have 13000 object thumbnails that we didn't before. [😊]
>
>
> As for how I did the pulls, I used excel to create a custom pull for
> each object using the syntax needed by the skyview.jar file from the
> NASA SkyView virtual observatory site. Please feel free to experiment
> with this yourself and see if you can come up with better results. I
> will definitely look into this further for you, but it will likely be
> after this weekend.
>
>
> Here is an example pull for a black and white image:
>
> java -jar skyview.jar position='NGC 7000' survey=dss2r scaling=log
> smooth=7 pixels=1000 Size=1.66666666666667 quicklook=png nofits
> output=thumb-ngc7000
>
> This pulls NGC 7000 from the DSS2R survey at 1000x1000 pixels and
> 1.66666 degrees (100 arcmin) of scale per side and downloads it as a
> png file.
>
>
> Here is an example pull for compiling RGB images:
>
> java -jar skyview.jar position='NGC 2024' survey=dss2r,dss,dss2b rgb
> scaling=log smooth=7 pixels=1000 Size=0.5 quicklook=png nofits
> output=thumb-ngc2024
>
> This pulls NGC 2024 using DSS2R for RED, DSS for GRN and DSS2B for BLU
> and combines them in RGB at 1000x1000 pixels and a scale of 30 arcmin
> per side. This will download as a jpg and will have to be converted to
> png manually.
>
>
> Try out a few pulls and see what you think. The skyview.jar file has
> to be in the directory you run the commands from. I have no doubt we
> can do more work on this. I suspect some of the objects will do color
> just fine, but I know I ran into significant color issues with some
> objects. NGC 7000 we particularly nasty. I suspect data from some of
> the other surveys was missing and the channels just didn't come out
> properly. It's possible that some of the other surveys have the data,
> but I did not look into it yet.
>
>
> Let me know what you think and how you would like to proceed.
>
>
> John
>
> ________________________________
> From: Jasem Mutlaq
> <mutlaqja@ikarustech.com<mailto:mutlaqja@ikarustech.com>>
> Sent: Friday, April 14, 2017 5:38 AM
> To: myxlflik@hotmail.com<mailto:myxlflik@hotmail.com>
> Subject: NGC Thumbnails
>
> Hi John,
>
> I sent you invitation to Google hangouts chat as well in order to
> discuss anything quickly. So I looked at the NGC images and they're
> great. However, I noticed many of them are _severely_ out of focus or
> bad quality. Some of them are excellent quality (e.g.
> thumb-ngc2175.png) but your mileage varies.
>
> Also some images are too saturated (e.g. thumb-ngc45.png). I'm not sure
> what is causing this, but can you investigate and find out why? Also,
> how difficult would it be to generate color RGB images from DSS
> sources? Is there a way to automate this?
>
> I modified KStars so that it also displays the thumb images in the
> observation planner if the main image is missing. So things are looking
> good but we need good quality images before we publish them to end
> users.
>
> Great work!
>
> --
> Best Regards,
> Jasem Mutlaq
>
>
>
>
> --
> Best Regards,
> Jasem Mutlaq
[Attachment #3 (text/html)]
<html><head></head><body><div>Yeah that would be cool.<br><br></div>
<div><!-- tmjah_g_1299s -->Sent from <!-- tmjah_g_1299e --><!-- tmjah_g_1299s --><a \
href="http://www.bluemail.me/r">BlueMail</a><!-- tmjah_g_1299e --><!-- tmjah_g_1299s \
--> <!-- tmjah_g_1299e --></div> <div class="gmail_quote" >On 15 Apr 2017, at 3:27 \
PM, "John S." <<a href="mailto:myxlflik@hotmail.com" \
target="_blank">myxlflik@hotmail.com</a>> wrote:<blockquote class="gmail_quote" \
style="margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); \
padding-left: 1ex;"> <div id="divtagdefaultwrapper" \
style="font-size:12pt;color:#000000;font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;" \
dir="ltr"> <p>Doesn't seem to be a lot of feedback right now. I guess it \
could be because of the weekend? Would you like to post a few of the bad \
examples and their NGC or IC numbers and I will see if I can do anything better with \
them?<br> </p> <br>
<br>
<div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
<hr tabindex="-1" style="display:inline-block; width:98%">
<div id="divRplyFwdMsg" dir="ltr">
<font style="font-size:11pt" face="Calibri, sans-serif" \
color="#000000"><b>From:</b> Kstars-devel <kstars-devel-bounces@kde.org> on \
behalf of Jasem Mutlaq <mutlaqja@ikarustech.com><br> <b>Sent:</b> Friday, April \
14, 2017 10:34 AM<br> <b>To:</b> KStars Development Mailing List<br> <b>Subject:</b> \
Fwd: NGC Thumbnails</font> <div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div dir="ltr">
Folks,
<div>
<br>
</div>
<div>
We've been having discussions over generating NGC/IC thumbnails to be used in \
KStars detail dialog + observation planner. John, from INDI forums ( <a \
href="http://indilib.org/forum/wish-list/2136-ngc-objects-thumbnails-for-object-planner.html?start=24#16162" \
id="LPlnk556158" previewremoved="true">http://indilib.org/forum/wish-list/2136-ngc-objects-thumbnails-for-object-planner.html?start=24#16162</a>), \
spent a lot of time generating image file (200x200) for NGC and IC objects in KStars \
database. However, when inspecting the images, there were quite a few issues. Below \
is an email from John that discusses the limitation of the approach. I'd like to \
invite all the developers to chime in on their ideas on this topic. </div>
<div>
<br>
</div>
<div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
---------- Forwarded message ----------
<br> From:
<b class="gmail_sendername">John S.</b>
<span dir="ltr"><<a \
href="mailto:myxlflik@hotmail.com">myxlflik@hotmail.com</a>></span> <br> Date: \
Fri, Apr 14, 2017 at 2:50 PM <br> Subject: Re: NGC Thumbnails
<br> To: Jasem Mutlaq <
<a href="mailto:mutlaqja@ikarustech.com">mutlaqja@ikarustech.com</a>>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<div dir="ltr">
<div id="gmail-m_-1981115236897400820divtagdefaultwrapper" dir="ltr" \
style="font-size:12pt; color:rgb(0,0,0); \
font-family:calibri,arial,helvetica,sans-serif"> <p>Jasem,</p>
<p><br> </p>
<p>FYI - I have completed the IC pulls. They can be gotten here. \
<a href="https://1drv.ms/u/s!AnSnRFrNRtfXviLmrzlp6Ru6N7KZ" \
class="gmail-m_-1981115236897400820OWAAutoLink" \
id="gmail-m_-1981115236897400820LPlnk685407|2:odcLink" \
target="_blank">https://1drv.ms/u/s!<wbr>AnSnRFrNRtfXviLmrzlp6Ru6N7KZ</a></p> \
<div id="gmail-m_-1981115236897400820LPBorder_GT|1:LPlnk685407[|2:odcLink|4:3]" \
style="margin-bottom:20px; overflow:auto; width:100%; text-indent:0px"> <table \
id="gmail-m_-1981115236897400820LPContainer_14921699744650.07691083743926075" \
style="width:90%; background-color:rgb(255,255,255); overflow:auto; padding-top:20px; \
padding-bottom:20px; margin-top:20px; border-top:1px dotted rgb(200,200,200); \
border-bottom:1px dotted rgb(200,200,200)" cellspacing="0"> <tbody>
<tr valign="top">
<td id="gmail-m_-1981115236897400820TextCell_14921699744660.31278131329857095" \
colspan="2" style="vertical-align:top; padding:0px; \
display:table-cell">
<div id="gmail-m_-1981115236897400820LPRemovePreviewContainer_14921699744670.11330499600294475"> \
</div>
<div id="gmail-m_-1981115236897400820LPOptionsContainer_14921699744670.9995953266761868"> \
</div>
<table>
<tbody>
<tr valign="top">
<td><a href="https://1drv.ms/u/s!AnSnRFrNRtfXviLmrzlp6Ru6N7KZ" \
target="_blank" style="margin-right:10px"><img \
id="gmail-m_-1981115236897400820LPItemIcon_14921699744670.6999177655036447" \
style="-moz-user-select: none;" \
src="https://r1.res.office365.com/owa/prem/images/dc-generic_40.png"></a></td> <td> \
<div id="gmail-m_-1981115236897400820LPTitle_14921699744680.9854128170663918" \
style="color:rgb(0,75,139); font-weight:400; font-size:21px; \
font-family:wf_segoe-ui_light,"segoe ui light","segoe wp \
light","segoe ui","segoe wp",tahoma,arial,sans-serif; \
line-height:21px"> <a \
id="gmail-m_-1981115236897400820LPUrlAnchor_14921699744690.5392362377557963" \
href="https://1drv.ms/u/s!AnSnRFrNRtfXviLmrzlp6Ru6N7KZ" target="_blank" \
style="text-decoration:none">IC-Thumbnails.tar.gz</a> </div>
<div \
id="gmail-m_-1981115236897400820LPMetadata_14921699744690.6434928751785014" \
style="margin:10px 0px 16px; color:rgb(102,102,102); font-weight:400; \
font-family:wf_segoe-ui_normal,"segoe ui","segoe \
wp",tahoma,arial,sans-serif; font-size:14px; line-height:14px"> Shared via \
OneDrive </div> </td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table> </td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
</div>
<br>
<p></p>
<p><br> </p>
<p>The images are straight from the NASA data. The ones that are out of \
'out of focus' are likely the objects that are very small (less than two arc minutes \
in size). There is an automated way to pull them and compile them in RGB. \
The problem is that you either have to use all three channels from the lower \
resolution DSS survey or use 2 of the DSS2 channels (Red and Blue) and use the Green \
from DSS. It's relatively easy to pull the objects, but it does take \
time. </p> <p><br> </p>
<p>I made some choices on parameters when doing the pulls. <br> </p>
<p>200x200 pixels was the minimum thumbnail size. 1000x1000 was the \
maximum.</p>
<p>2 arcminx2arcmin is the closest resolution. This means all objects 2 \
arcmin or smaller will be a 200x200 thumbnail scaled at 100 \
pixels/arcmin</p>
<p> I chose to scale this up linearly to 1000x1000 where a \
10 arcmin object would be 1000x1000 and still be 100 \
pixels/arcmin</p>
<p> For objects larger than this, they will be 1000x1000 \
where the scale will be the number of arcmin wide or tall the object is.</p> \
<p><br> </p> <p>As for the quality, I know a couple of the images are just bad \
because of the survey data. I know there is room for improvement here, but we \
have 13000 object thumbnails that we didn't before. <img naturalheight="19" \
naturalwidth="19" class="gmail-m_-1981115236897400820EmojiInsert" \
id="gmail-m_-1981115236897400820OWAEmoji419275" alt="😊" style="vertical-align: \
bottom; -moz-user-select: none;" tabindex="0" \
src="cid:7c89af44-ffa0-4cc4-b6f9-dfccfe1f8747"></p> <p><br> </p>
<p>As for how I did the pulls, I used excel to create a custom pull for each \
object using the syntax needed by the skyview.jar file from the NASA SkyView \
virtual observatory site. Please feel free to experiment with this yourself and \
see if you can come up with better results. I will definitely look into this \
further for you, but it will likely be after this weekend.</p> <p><br> </p>
<p>Here is an example pull for a black and white image:</p>
<p><span>java -jar skyview.jar position='NGC 7000' survey=dss2r scaling=log \
smooth=7 pixels=1000 Size=1.66666666666667 quicklook=png nofits \
output=thumb-ngc7000</span></p> <p>This pulls NGC 7000 from the DSS2R survey at \
1000x1000 pixels and 1.66666 degrees (100 arcmin) of scale per side and downloads it \
as a png file. <br> </p> <br>
<p>Here is an example pull for compiling RGB images:</p>
<p><span>java -jar skyview.jar position='NGC 2024' survey=dss2r,dss,dss2b rgb \
scaling=log smooth=7 pixels=1000 Size=0.5 quicklook=png nofits \
output=thumb-ngc2024</span></p> <p>This pulls NGC 2024 using DSS2R for RED, DSS for \
GRN and DSS2B for BLU and combines them in RGB at 1000x1000 pixels and a scale of 30 \
arcmin per side. This will download as a jpg and will have to be converted to \
png manually.</p> <p><br> </p>
<p>Try out a few pulls and see what you think. The skyview.jar file has \
to be in the directory you run the commands from. I have no doubt we can do \
more work on this. I suspect some of the objects will do color just fine, but I \
know I ran into significant color issues with some objects. NGC 7000 we \
particularly nasty. I suspect data from some of the other surveys was missing \
and the channels just didn't come out properly. It's possible that some of the \
other surveys have the data, but I did not look into it yet.</p> <p><br> </p>
<p>Let me know what you think and how you would like to proceed.</p>
<span class="gmail-HOEnZb"><font color="#888888"> </font><p><font \
color="#888888"><br> </font></p><p><font color="#888888">John<br> </font></p></span> \
<div style="color:rgb(0,0,0)"> <div class="gmail-hm gmail-HOEnZb">
<hr style="display:inline-block; width:98%">
<div id="gmail-m_-1981115236897400820divRplyFwdMsg" dir="ltr">
<font style="font-size:11pt" face="Calibri, sans-serif" \
color="#000000"><b>From:</b> Jasem Mutlaq <<a \
href="mailto:mutlaqja@ikarustech.com" \
target="_blank">mutlaqja@ikarustech.com</a>><br> <b>Sent:</b> Friday, April 14, \
2017 5:38 AM<br> <b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:myxlflik@hotmail.com" \
target="_blank">myxlflik@hotmail.com</a><br> <b>Subject:</b> NGC Thumbnails</font> \
<div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="gmail-h5">
<div>
<div dir="ltr">
Hi John,
<div>
<br>
</div>
<div>
I sent you invitation to Google hangouts chat as well in order to \
discuss anything quickly. So I looked at the NGC images and they're great. However, I \
noticed many of them are _severely_ out of focus or bad quality. Some of them are \
excellent quality (e.g. thumb-ngc2175.png) but your mileage varies. </div>
<div>
<br>
</div>
<div>
Also some images are too saturated (e.g. thumb-ngc45.png). I'm not sure \
what is causing this, but can you investigate and find out why? Also, how difficult \
would it be to generate color RGB images from DSS sources? Is there a way to automate \
this? </div>
<div>
<br>
</div>
<div>
I modified KStars so that it also displays the thumb images in the \
observation planner if the main image is missing. So things are looking good but we \
need good quality images before we publish them to end users. </div>
<div>
<br>
</div>
<div>
Great work!
<br clear="all">
<div>
<br>
</div> --
<br>
<div class="gmail-m_-1981115236897400820gmail_signature">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>
Best Regards,
<br> Jasem Mutlaq
<br>
</div>
<div>
<br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<br clear="all">
<div>
<br>
</div> --
<br>
<div class="gmail_signature">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>
Best Regards,
<br> Jasem Mutlaq
<br>
</div>
<div>
<br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div></blockquote></div></body></html>
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