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List: kstars-devel
Subject: Re: NGC Thumbnails
From: John S. <myxlflik () hotmail ! com>
Date: 2017-04-15 3:27:03
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Doesn't seem to be a lot of feedback right now. I guess it could be because of the \
weekend? Would you like to post a few of the bad examples and their NGC or IC \
numbers and I will see if I can do anything better with them?
________________________________
From: Kstars-devel <kstars-devel-bounces@kde.org> on behalf of Jasem Mutlaq \
<mutlaqja@ikarustech.com>
Sent: Friday, April 14, 2017 10:34 AM
To: KStars Development Mailing List
Subject: Fwd: NGC Thumbnails
Folks,
We've been having discussions over generating NGC/IC thumbnails to be used in KStars \
detail dialog + observation planner. John, from INDI forums \
(http://indilib.org/forum/wish-list/2136-ngc-objects-thumbnails-for-object-planner.html?start=24#16162), \
spent a lot of time generating image file (200x200) for NGC and IC objects in KStars \
database. However, when inspecting the images, there were quite a few issues. Below \
is an email from John that discusses the limitation of the approach. I'd like to \
invite all the developers to chime in on their ideas on this topic.
---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: John S. <myxlflik@hotmail.com<mailto:myxlflik@hotmail.com>>
Date: Fri, Apr 14, 2017 at 2:50 PM
Subject: Re: NGC Thumbnails
To: Jasem Mutlaq <mutlaqja@ikarustech.com<mailto:mutlaqja@ikarustech.com>>
Jasem,
FYI - I have completed the IC pulls. They can be gotten here. \
https://1drv.ms/u/s!AnSnRFrNRtfXviLmrzlp6Ru6N7KZ
[https://r1.res.office365.com/owa/prem/images/dc-generic_40.png]<https://1drv.ms/u/s!AnSnRFrNRtfXviLmrzlp6Ru6N7KZ>
IC-Thumbnails.tar.gz<https://1drv.ms/u/s!AnSnRFrNRtfXviLmrzlp6Ru6N7KZ>
Shared via OneDrive
The images are straight from the NASA data. The ones that are out of 'out of focus' \
are likely the objects that are very small (less than two arc minutes in size). \
There is an automated way to pull them and compile them in RGB. The problem is that \
you either have to use all three channels from the lower resolution DSS survey or use \
2 of the DSS2 channels (Red and Blue) and use the Green from DSS. It's relatively \
easy to pull the objects, but it does take time.
I made some choices on parameters when doing the pulls.
200x200 pixels was the minimum thumbnail size. 1000x1000 was the maximum.
2 arcminx2arcmin is the closest resolution. This means all objects 2 arcmin or \
smaller will be a 200x200 thumbnail scaled at 100 pixels/arcmin
I chose to scale this up linearly to 1000x1000 where a 10 arcmin object would be \
1000x1000 and still be 100 pixels/arcmin
For objects larger than this, they will be 1000x1000 where the scale will be the \
number of arcmin wide or tall the object is.
As for the quality, I know a couple of the images are just bad because of the survey \
data. I know there is room for improvement here, but we have 13000 object thumbnails \
that we didn't before. [😊]
As for how I did the pulls, I used excel to create a custom pull for each object \
using the syntax needed by the skyview.jar file from the NASA SkyView virtual \
observatory site. Please feel free to experiment with this yourself and see if you \
can come up with better results. I will definitely look into this further for you, \
but it will likely be after this weekend.
Here is an example pull for a black and white image:
java -jar skyview.jar position='NGC 7000' survey=dss2r scaling=log smooth=7 \
pixels=1000 Size=1.66666666666667 quicklook=png nofits output=thumb-ngc7000
This pulls NGC 7000 from the DSS2R survey at 1000x1000 pixels and 1.66666 degrees \
(100 arcmin) of scale per side and downloads it as a png file.
Here is an example pull for compiling RGB images:
java -jar skyview.jar position='NGC 2024' survey=dss2r,dss,dss2b rgb scaling=log \
smooth=7 pixels=1000 Size=0.5 quicklook=png nofits output=thumb-ngc2024
This pulls NGC 2024 using DSS2R for RED, DSS for GRN and DSS2B for BLU and combines \
them in RGB at 1000x1000 pixels and a scale of 30 arcmin per side. This will \
download as a jpg and will have to be converted to png manually.
Try out a few pulls and see what you think. The skyview.jar file has to be in the \
directory you run the commands from. I have no doubt we can do more work on this. I \
suspect some of the objects will do color just fine, but I know I ran into \
significant color issues with some objects. NGC 7000 we particularly nasty. I \
suspect data from some of the other surveys was missing and the channels just didn't \
come out properly. It's possible that some of the other surveys have the data, but I \
did not look into it yet.
Let me know what you think and how you would like to proceed.
John
________________________________
From: Jasem Mutlaq <mutlaqja@ikarustech.com<mailto:mutlaqja@ikarustech.com>>
Sent: Friday, April 14, 2017 5:38 AM
To: myxlflik@hotmail.com<mailto:myxlflik@hotmail.com>
Subject: NGC Thumbnails
Hi John,
I sent you invitation to Google hangouts chat as well in order to discuss anything \
quickly. So I looked at the NGC images and they're great. However, I noticed many of \
them are _severely_ out of focus or bad quality. Some of them are excellent quality \
(e.g. thumb-ngc2175.png) but your mileage varies.
Also some images are too saturated (e.g. thumb-ngc45.png). I'm not sure what is \
causing this, but can you investigate and find out why? Also, how difficult would it \
be to generate color RGB images from DSS sources? Is there a way to automate this?
I modified KStars so that it also displays the thumb images in the observation \
planner if the main image is missing. So things are looking good but we need good \
quality images before we publish them to end users.
Great work!
--
Best Regards,
Jasem Mutlaq
--
Best Regards,
Jasem Mutlaq
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<div id="divtagdefaultwrapper" \
style="font-size:12pt;color:#000000;font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;" \
dir="ltr"> <p>Doesn't seem to be a lot of feedback right now. I guess it could \
be because of the weekend? Would you like to post a few of the bad examples and \
their NGC or IC numbers and I will see if I can do anything better with them?<br> \
</p> <br>
<br>
<div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
<hr tabindex="-1" style="display:inline-block; width:98%">
<div id="divRplyFwdMsg" dir="ltr"><font style="font-size:11pt" face="Calibri, \
sans-serif" color="#000000"><b>From:</b> Kstars-devel \
<kstars-devel-bounces@kde.org> on behalf of Jasem Mutlaq \
<mutlaqja@ikarustech.com><br> <b>Sent:</b> Friday, April 14, 2017 10:34 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> KStars Development Mailing List<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Fwd: NGC Thumbnails</font>
<div> </div>
</div>
<div>
<div dir="ltr">Folks,
<div><br>
</div>
<div>We've been having discussions over generating NGC/IC thumbnails to be used in \
KStars detail dialog + observation planner. John, from INDI forums (<a \
href="http://indilib.org/forum/wish-list/2136-ngc-objects-thumbnails-for-object-planner.html?start=24#16162" \
id="LPlnk556158" previewremoved="true">http://indilib.org/forum/wish-list/2136-ngc-objects-thumbnails-for-object-planner.html?start=24#16162</a>),
spent a lot of time generating image file (200x200) for NGC and IC objects in \
KStars database. However, when inspecting the images, there were quite a few issues. \
Below is an email from John that discusses the limitation of the approach. I'd like \
to invite all the developers to chime in on their ideas on this topic.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">---------- Forwarded message ----------<br>
From: <b class="gmail_sendername">John S.</b> <span dir="ltr"><<a \
href="mailto:myxlflik@hotmail.com">myxlflik@hotmail.com</a>></span><br>
Date: Fri, Apr 14, 2017 at 2:50 PM<br>
Subject: Re: NGC Thumbnails<br>
To: Jasem Mutlaq <<a \
href="mailto:mutlaqja@ikarustech.com">mutlaqja@ikarustech.com</a>><br> <br>
<br>
<div dir="ltr">
<div id="gmail-m_-1981115236897400820divtagdefaultwrapper" dir="ltr" \
style="font-size:12pt; color:rgb(0,0,0); \
font-family:calibri,arial,helvetica,sans-serif"> <p>Jasem,</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<p>FYI - I have completed the IC pulls. They can be gotten here. <a \
href="https://1drv.ms/u/s!AnSnRFrNRtfXviLmrzlp6Ru6N7KZ" \
class="gmail-m_-1981115236897400820OWAAutoLink" \
id="gmail-m_-1981115236897400820LPlnk685407|2:odcLink" \
target="_blank">https://1drv.ms/u/s!<wbr>AnSnRFrNRtfXviLmrzlp6Ru6N7KZ</a></p> <div \
id="gmail-m_-1981115236897400820LPBorder_GT|1:LPlnk685407[|2:odcLink|4:3]" \
style="margin-bottom:20px; overflow:auto; width:100%; text-indent:0px"> <table \
id="gmail-m_-1981115236897400820LPContainer_14921699744650.07691083743926075" \
style="width:90%; background-color:rgb(255,255,255); overflow:auto; padding-top:20px; \
padding-bottom:20px; margin-top:20px; border-top:1px dotted rgb(200,200,200); \
border-bottom:1px dotted rgb(200,200,200)" cellspacing="0"> <tbody>
<tr valign="top">
<td id="gmail-m_-1981115236897400820TextCell_14921699744660.31278131329857095" \
colspan="2" style="vertical-align:top; padding:0px; display:table-cell"> <div \
id="gmail-m_-1981115236897400820LPRemovePreviewContainer_14921699744670.11330499600294475">
</div>
<div id="gmail-m_-1981115236897400820LPOptionsContainer_14921699744670.9995953266761868">
</div>
<table>
<tbody>
<tr valign="top">
<td><a href="https://1drv.ms/u/s!AnSnRFrNRtfXviLmrzlp6Ru6N7KZ" target="_blank" \
style="margin-right:10px"><img \
id="gmail-m_-1981115236897400820LPItemIcon_14921699744670.6999177655036447" \
style="-moz-user-select: none;" \
src="https://r1.res.office365.com/owa/prem/images/dc-generic_40.png"></a></td> <td>
<div id="gmail-m_-1981115236897400820LPTitle_14921699744680.9854128170663918" \
style="color:rgb(0,75,139); font-weight:400; font-size:21px; \
font-family:wf_segoe-ui_light,"segoe ui light","segoe wp \
light","segoe ui","segoe wp",tahoma,arial,sans-serif; \
line-height:21px"> <a \
id="gmail-m_-1981115236897400820LPUrlAnchor_14921699744690.5392362377557963" \
href="https://1drv.ms/u/s!AnSnRFrNRtfXviLmrzlp6Ru6N7KZ" target="_blank" \
style="text-decoration:none">IC-Thumbnails.tar.gz</a></div> <div \
id="gmail-m_-1981115236897400820LPMetadata_14921699744690.6434928751785014" \
style="margin:10px 0px 16px; color:rgb(102,102,102); font-weight:400; \
font-family:wf_segoe-ui_normal,"segoe ui","segoe \
wp",tahoma,arial,sans-serif; font-size:14px; line-height:14px"> Shared via \
OneDrive</div> </td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
</td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
</div>
<br>
<p></p>
<p><br>
</p>
<p>The images are straight from the NASA data. The ones that are out of 'out of \
focus' are likely the objects that are very small (less than two arc minutes in \
size). There is an automated way to pull them and compile them in RGB. \
The problem is that you either have to use all three channels from the lower \
resolution DSS survey or use 2 of the DSS2 channels (Red and Blue) and use the Green \
from DSS. It's relatively easy to pull the objects, but it does take \
time. </p> <p><br>
</p>
<p>I made some choices on parameters when doing the pulls. <br>
</p>
<p>200x200 pixels was the minimum thumbnail size. 1000x1000 was the \
maximum.</p> <p>2 arcminx2arcmin is the closest resolution. This means all \
objects 2 arcmin or smaller will be a 200x200 thumbnail scaled at 100 \
pixels/arcmin</p> <p> I chose to scale this up linearly to \
1000x1000 where a 10 arcmin object would be 1000x1000 and still be 100 \
pixels/arcmin</p> <p> For objects larger than this, they will be \
1000x1000 where the scale will be the number of arcmin wide or tall the object \
is.</p> <p><br>
</p>
<p>As for the quality, I know a couple of the images are just bad because of the \
survey data. I know there is room for improvement here, but we have 13000 \
object thumbnails that we didn't before. <img naturalheight="19" \
naturalwidth="19" class="gmail-m_-1981115236897400820EmojiInsert" \
id="gmail-m_-1981115236897400820OWAEmoji419275" alt="😊" style="vertical-align: \
bottom; -moz-user-select: none;" tabindex="0" \
src="cid:7c89af44-ffa0-4cc4-b6f9-dfccfe1f8747"></p> <p><br>
</p>
<p>As for how I did the pulls, I used excel to create a custom pull for each object \
using the syntax needed by the skyview.jar file from the NASA SkyView virtual \
observatory site. Please feel free to experiment with this yourself and see if \
you can come up with better results. I will definitely look into this further \
for you, but it will likely be after this weekend.</p> <p><br>
</p>
<p>Here is an example pull for a black and white image:</p>
<p><span>java -jar skyview.jar position='NGC 7000' survey=dss2r scaling=log smooth=7 \
pixels=1000 Size=1.66666666666667 quicklook=png nofits \
output=thumb-ngc7000</span></p> <p>This pulls NGC 7000 from the DSS2R survey at \
1000x1000 pixels and 1.66666 degrees (100 arcmin) of scale per side and downloads it \
as a png file. <br> </p>
<br>
<p>Here is an example pull for compiling RGB images:</p>
<p><span>java -jar skyview.jar position='NGC 2024' survey=dss2r,dss,dss2b rgb \
scaling=log smooth=7 pixels=1000 Size=0.5 quicklook=png nofits \
output=thumb-ngc2024</span></p> <p>This pulls NGC 2024 using DSS2R for RED, DSS for \
GRN and DSS2B for BLU and combines them in RGB at 1000x1000 pixels and a scale of 30 \
arcmin per side. This will download as a jpg and will have to be converted to \
png manually.</p> <p><br>
</p>
<p>Try out a few pulls and see what you think. The skyview.jar file has to be \
in the directory you run the commands from. I have no doubt we can do more work \
on this. I suspect some of the objects will do color just fine, but I know I \
ran into significant color issues with some objects. NGC 7000 we particularly \
nasty. I suspect data from some of the other surveys was missing and the \
channels just didn't come out properly. It's possible that some of the other \
surveys have the data, but I did not look into it yet.</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<p>Let me know what you think and how you would like to proceed.</p>
<span class="gmail-HOEnZb"><font color="#888888">
<p><br>
</p>
<p>John<br>
</p>
</font></span>
<div style="color:rgb(0,0,0)">
<div class="gmail-hm gmail-HOEnZb">
<hr style="display:inline-block; width:98%">
<div id="gmail-m_-1981115236897400820divRplyFwdMsg" dir="ltr"><font \
style="font-size:11pt" face="Calibri, sans-serif" color="#000000"><b>From:</b> Jasem \
Mutlaq <<a href="mailto:mutlaqja@ikarustech.com" \
target="_blank">mutlaqja@ikarustech.com</a>><br> <b>Sent:</b> Friday, April 14, \
2017 5:38 AM<br> <b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:myxlflik@hotmail.com" \
target="_blank">myxlflik@hotmail.com</a><br> <b>Subject:</b> NGC Thumbnails</font>
<div> </div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="gmail-h5">
<div>
<div dir="ltr">Hi John,
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I sent you invitation to Google hangouts chat as well in order to discuss \
anything quickly. So I looked at the NGC images and they're great. However, I noticed \
many of them are _severely_ out of focus or bad quality. Some of them are excellent \
quality (e.g. thumb-ngc2175.png) but your mileage varies.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Also some images are too saturated (e.g. thumb-ngc45.png). I'm not sure what is \
causing this, but can you investigate and find out why? Also, how difficult would it \
be to generate color RGB images from DSS sources? Is there a way to automate \
this?</div> <div><br>
</div>
<div>I modified KStars so that it also displays the thumb images in the observation \
planner if the main image is missing. So things are looking good but we need good \
quality images before we publish them to end users.</div> <div><br>
</div>
<div>Great work!<br clear="all">
<div><br>
</div>
-- <br>
<div class="gmail-m_-1981115236897400820gmail_signature">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>Best Regards,<br>
Jasem Mutlaq<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<br clear="all">
<div><br>
</div>
-- <br>
<div class="gmail_signature">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>Best Regards,<br>
Jasem Mutlaq<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</body>
</html>
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