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List:       koffice-devel
Subject:    next irc meeting about color dialogs
From:       "C. Boemann" <cbr () boemann ! dk>
Date:       2008-12-29 22:25:07
Message-ID: 200812292325.07672.cbr () boemann ! dk
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Hi there

As promised I'll follow up on the irc meeting on saturday. You can find the 
log attached.

Also I've prepared a proposal based on those discussions. I stress "based 
on" as there might be some differences.

The proposal can be found on our wiki at:

http://wiki.koffice.org/index.php?title=Colordialogs

Please take a look and then we'll talk about this in our next meeting. As you 
might notice from the log and proposal we have not yet covered the 
advanced dialog or the plan for 2.0

Next meeting will be Friday 18:00 cet

best regards
Casper


["koffice-color.log" (text/x-log)]

*** Logfile started

[Sat Dec 27 2008] [17:58:38] <pinheiro> hello
[Sat Dec 27 2008] [17:59:25] <boemann> hi
[Sat Dec 27 2008] [17:59:54] <pinheiro> i have 30 minutes
[Sat Dec 27 2008] [17:59:56] <pinheiro> :)
[Sat Dec 27 2008] [18:00:10] <pinheiro> just had a warning from my wife
[Sat Dec 27 2008] [18:00:28] <boemann> hmm bad timing then because we'll start with \
some basics [Sat Dec 27 2008] [18:00:34] <boemann> but lets see
[Sat Dec 27 2008] [18:00:37] <pinheiro> hummm
[Sat Dec 27 2008] [18:01:07] <pinheiro> been fixing 48x48 icons all weekend
[Sat Dec 27 2008] [18:01:41] <slangkamp> boemann: do you have an agenda?
[Sat Dec 27 2008] [18:01:47] <boemann> yeah
[Sat Dec 27 2008] [18:01:56] <boemann> mostly like in the mail
[Sat Dec 27 2008] [18:02:18] <boemann> ok lets start
[Sat Dec 27 2008] [18:02:33] <boemann> as i said in the mail it's ames right now
[Sat Dec 27 2008] [18:02:48] <boemann> we are undoing eachother changes and \
reimplementing stuff etc [Sat Dec 27 2008] [18:03:05] <boemann> in short we are \
without a common aim [Sat Dec 27 2008] [18:03:25] <slangkamp> number 1: listing the \
usecases and apps that require any form of color choosing [Sat Dec 27 2008] \
[18:03:32] <boemann> so first order of business is to define the usecases [Sat Dec 27 \
2008] [18:03:46] <boemann> we naturally have nkrita and karbon [Sat Dec 27 2008] \
[18:03:59] <boemann> but kpresenter and kword use color too [Sat Dec 27 2008] \
[18:04:17] <boemann> and i'd like to have some commone ground here [Sat Dec 27 2008] \
[18:04:27] <boemann> yet adapted to the users knowledge [Sat Dec 27 2008] [18:04:48] \
<pinheiro> boemann: one importnat thing for artists is were is the art gona be used \
... computer art or printed [Sat Dec 27 2008] [18:05:01] <pinheiro> cmky or rgb
[Sat Dec 27 2008] [18:05:24] <boemann> well we can't really fix that up front but \
indeed it's something that should be thought about [Sat Dec 27 2008] [18:05:30] \
<boemann> lke an option somewhere [Sat Dec 27 2008] [18:05:38] <pinheiro> not sure \
this is importnat for usecases [Sat Dec 27 2008] [18:05:44] Join CyrilleB has joined \
this channel (n=cyrille@wahe.diwi.org). [Sat Dec 27 2008] [18:05:47] <boemann> i \
think it is [Sat Dec 27 2008] [18:05:58] <boemann> btw is anyone logging this?
[Sat Dec 27 2008] [18:06:31] <boemann> i'll start by talking about kword and \
kpresenter [Sat Dec 27 2008] [18:06:49] <CyrilleB> I think I am logging now...
[Sat Dec 27 2008] [18:06:55] <boemann> they are simple usecases
[Sat Dec 27 2008] [18:07:05] <boemann> CyrilleB: good you havn't missed anything
[Sat Dec 27 2008] [18:07:20] <boemann> we are about to talk about usecases
[Sat Dec 27 2008] [18:07:51] <boemann> as i said simple uisecases, but i'd like us to \
be prepared for a colormanaged workflow here too [Sat Dec 27 2008] [18:08:04] \
<boemann> meaning we should use our own colordialogs [Sat Dec 27 2008] [18:08:10] \
<boemann> and not the kde one [Sat Dec 27 2008] [18:08:29] <boemann> also i kind of \
like the way ms office does it [Sat Dec 27 2008] [18:08:40] <boemann> it's basically \
a simple combobox like thing [Sat Dec 27 2008] [18:09:08] <boemann> afaict thomas' \
latest text docker uses my take on this [Sat Dec 27 2008] [18:09:19] * boemann have \
some different dockers [Sat Dec 27 2008] [18:09:48] <boemann> I'll post some \
screenshots of kword - others can comment while i prepare them [Sat Dec 27 2008] \
[18:10:17] Join boud has joined this channel (n=boud@calcifer.xs4all.nl). [Sat Dec 27 \
2008] [18:10:37] <jaham> when you say you like the ms word one, could you explain \
that a little more? [Sat Dec 27 2008] [18:10:57] <CyrilleB> we should focus on \
usecase before implementations before [Sat Dec 27 2008] [18:11:40] <boemann> \
CyrilleB: yes [Sat Dec 27 2008] [18:13:11] <boemann> hmm imageshack doesn't seem to \
work [Sat Dec 27 2008] [18:13:34] <boemann> well mostly for kword users it's a matter \
of setting the fontcolor [Sat Dec 27 2008] [18:13:44] <boemann> either while they \
type [Sat Dec 27 2008] [18:13:57] <boemann> or when they set up a style
[Sat Dec 27 2008] [18:14:06] <jaham> and probably the text background color too
[Sat Dec 27 2008] [18:14:18] <boemann> yes
[Sat Dec 27 2008] [18:14:42] <jaham> and then there ar these shapes you can also use \
in kword [Sat Dec 27 2008] [18:14:44] <boemann> also from time to time the do some \
karbon'ish stuff too [Sat Dec 27 2008] [18:15:09] <boemann> colormanaged flow will be \
important to some [Sat Dec 27 2008] [18:15:10] <slangkamp> but that's less common
[Sat Dec 27 2008] [18:15:18] <boemann> especially since kword is a mini-dtp
[Sat Dec 27 2008] [18:16:00] <boemann> ms word has this toolbutton, that when pressed \
applies a preloaded color [Sat Dec 27 2008] [18:16:10] <boemann> that is: a single \
click to apply a color [Sat Dec 27 2008] [18:16:32] <boemann> when you click the \
option down arrow of the button you get a pop up [Sat Dec 27 2008] [18:16:43] \
<boemann> which contain swatche ie a palette) [Sat Dec 27 2008] [18:16:59] <boemann> \
it also contains a button for custom color [Sat Dec 27 2008] [18:17:34] <CyrilleB> \
thomas said he was interested in something similar for kword [Sat Dec 27 2008] \
[18:17:36] <boemann> when you select a color here it becomes the preloaded color  \
[Sat Dec 27 2008] [18:18:00] <boemann> yes and i think it's the best thing for kword \
and kpresenter and kspread [Sat Dec 27 2008] [18:18:33] <boemann> now this \
swatch/palette would be nice if we reuse in krita/karbon [Sat Dec 27 2008] [18:18:37] \
<boemann> so it looks familiar [Sat Dec 27 2008] [18:18:59] <boemann> obvious \
krita/karbon have further requirements but it should be able to fit [Sat Dec 27 2008] \
[18:19:11] <boemann> back to kword too [Sat Dec 27 2008] [18:19:16] <boemann> too/
[Sat Dec 27 2008] [18:19:40] <boemann> in kword you can also set up the font color \
when you define a style [Sat Dec 27 2008] [18:19:57] <boemann> in this case a \
preloaded color doesn't make sense [Sat Dec 27 2008] [18:20:08] <boemann> but it \
should still be a button with a popup [Sat Dec 27 2008] [18:20:52] <boemann> now the \
first button (with preload) and the second button (without preload) are almost \
already made by me and jaham respectively [Sat Dec 27 2008] [18:21:15] <boemann> we \
should finish those off to reuse code and look similar [Sat Dec 27 2008] [18:21:36] * \
CyrilleB thinks that something based on QAbstractModelIndex could do the trick to \
allow reusability [Sat Dec 27 2008] [18:21:54] <boemann> in common lets just call it \
the colorpopupbutton [Sat Dec 27 2008] [18:22:10] <boemann> CyrilleB: ok i'll talk to \
you about that afterwards [Sat Dec 27 2008] [18:22:25] <boemann> now on to karbon and \
gradients [Sat Dec 27 2008] [18:22:36] <boemann> there you need to define stop colors
[Sat Dec 27 2008] [18:22:42] Join PierreSt has joined this channel \
(n=pierre@p5498EBF3.dip.t-dialin.net). [Sat Dec 27 2008] [18:23:03] <boemann> my idea \
was to reuse the colopopupbutton here too [Sat Dec 27 2008] [18:23:21] <boemann> but \
for that to be usable [Sat Dec 27 2008] [18:23:41] <boemann> it doesn't cut it just \
to have it contatin a palette [Sat Dec 27 2008] [18:23:56] <boemann> pinheiro told me \
that preedefined colors are rarely used [Sat Dec 27 2008] [18:24:22] <boemann> so in \
the popup eh need to have a colorwheel (or something to be defined) [Sat Dec 27 2008] \
[18:24:42] <boemann> in kword it might just do to click a "custom" button to get to \
custom colors [Sat Dec 27 2008] [18:24:57] <boemann> but in karbon you want this \
every time [Sat Dec 27 2008] [18:25:25] <boemann> so not to waist clicks the color \
wheel should be directly in the popup imho [Sat Dec 27 2008] [18:25:44] <CyrilleB> \
speaking of gradient dialog... why do we have two of them ? one in krita one in \
karbon ? [Sat Dec 27 2008] [18:25:46] <boemann> question is if it would make sense to \
have the wheel directly available in kword too? [Sat Dec 27 2008] [18:26:28] \
<CyrilleB> and speaking of colorwheel in popup, the one in karbon's docker is too \
small [Sat Dec 27 2008] [18:26:31] <boemann> CyrilleB: i guess becasue the gradients \
work in different settings [Sat Dec 27 2008] [18:26:33] <pinheiro> preedefined \
colors/gradients yes [Sat Dec 27 2008] [18:26:36] <slangkamp> CyrilleB: krita can do \
more than karbon [Sat Dec 27 2008] [18:26:41] <pinheiro> pallets is a difrent story
[Sat Dec 27 2008] [18:26:58] <boemann> right
[Sat Dec 27 2008] [18:27:13] <boemann> in my mind our palettes are halfway custom \
colors [Sat Dec 27 2008] [18:27:25] <boemann> though it should be possible to lad a \
palette into it [Sat Dec 27 2008] [18:27:29] <pinheiro> yeah i had that feeling
[Sat Dec 27 2008] [18:27:32] <boemann> lad/load
[Sat Dec 27 2008] [18:28:09] * pinheiro notes that he dosent use pallets often but \
they are important [Sat Dec 27 2008] [18:28:44] * boemann will talk briefly abut \
wheelm,versus small colro selector etc [Sat Dec 27 2008] [18:28:56] <boemann> \
actiolly i'm not [Sat Dec 27 2008] [18:29:15] <boemann> but i'll just say that each \
user will have his or hers own preference [Sat Dec 27 2008] [18:29:35] <boemann> so \
why don't whe make it configuarble which one to use in the popup? [Sat Dec 27 2008] \
[18:30:32] <boemann> and yes i agree with CyrilleB the wheel (whatever) should be \
large anough to be actually usable [Sat Dec 27 2008] [18:30:46] <CyrilleB> "small \
colro selector" is only interesting for a docker [Sat Dec 27 2008] [18:30:54] \
<boemann> why [Sat Dec 27 2008] [18:31:04] <boemann> wouldn't it be interesting for \
the popup too? [Sat Dec 27 2008] [18:31:06] <CyrilleB> it was designed for taking \
small space, if you have space, you have better use something else [Sat Dec 27 2008] \
[18:31:21] <boemann> but someone might like it [Sat Dec 27 2008] [18:31:25] \
<CyrilleB> it's interesting, if for some reason, we can't/don't want to make the \
popup bigger [Sat Dec 27 2008] [18:31:28] <boemann> why limit ourselves
[Sat Dec 27 2008] [18:31:57] <boemann> lets just let the user choose which one he \
prefers [Sat Dec 27 2008] [18:31:59] <CyrilleB> because giving options/configurations \
is not necesseraly a good thing [Sat Dec 27 2008] [18:32:11] <boemann> in this case i \
think it is [Sat Dec 27 2008] [18:32:24] <CyrilleB> we should avoid the "we can't \
take a decision so lets make it an option" [Sat Dec 27 2008] [18:32:37] <boemann> \
over the last year or more i've observed that we have very different opinions on what \
is good [Sat Dec 27 2008] [18:33:00] <CyrilleB> actually, options and configurability \
need much more thinking and more consideration than just choosing which widget tot \
show [Sat Dec 27 2008] [18:33:51] <boemann> well
[Sat Dec 27 2008] [18:33:56] <enkithan> I think the problem now is there is no use \
cases defined yet, so we don't really know if they will be used [Sat Dec 27 2008] \
[18:34:17] <boemann> ok [Sat Dec 27 2008] [18:34:28] <CyrilleB> if you are speaking \
about color selector docker... well I am not convinced that the small color selector \
is the best choice for color selection, but it's clearly the best one you can make \
that will take a minimal amount of space [Sat Dec 27 2008] [18:34:38] <boemann> \
enkithan: don't the usecases for kword qualify as usecases? [Sat Dec 27 2008] \
[18:35:28] <boemann> CyrilleB: i was talking about the colorpopupbutton [Sat Dec 27 \
2008] [18:35:40] <boemann> i'm not even at the dockers yet [Sat Dec 27 2008] \
[18:35:56] <enkithan> boemann: ah I thought it was about karbon & colorgradient too \
[Sat Dec 27 2008] [18:36:16] <boemann> artist now is the time to give usecases for \
karbon/krita [Sat Dec 27 2008] [18:36:29] <boemann> enkithan: actually it was
[Sat Dec 27 2008] [18:37:15] <boemann> the gradient case is one where you want to \
define stopcolors [Sat Dec 27 2008] [18:37:47] <boemann> it obviously doesn't fit to \
use forground/background here as you can have any number of stops [Sat Dec 27 2008] \
[18:38:01] <boemann> so i think a popup is the best fit [Sat Dec 27 2008] [18:38:14] \
<slangkamp> and you have to select stop opacity too [Sat Dec 27 2008] [18:38:23] \
<boemann> right [Sat Dec 27 2008] [18:38:41] <boemann> ok lets talk about opacity for \
a while [Sat Dec 27 2008] [18:38:51] <boemann> for me opacity should be part of the \
color [Sat Dec 27 2008] [18:38:56] <boemann> like it is in karbon
[Sat Dec 27 2008] [18:39:01] <boemann> i think it makes sense
[Sat Dec 27 2008] [18:39:36] <boemann> krita is a bit out of touch here i think
[Sat Dec 27 2008] [18:40:40] <boemann> anyway
[Sat Dec 27 2008] [18:40:49] <CyrilleB> I think we already had the debat, and that we \
decided that in krita it didn't belong in the color selector [Sat Dec 27 2008] \
[18:40:55] Quit jaham has left this server (Remote closed the connection). [Sat Dec \
27 2008] [18:41:16] <boemann> CyrilleB: i wasn't part of it but i'm interested in \
hearing why? [Sat Dec 27 2008] [18:41:36] * CyrilleB doesn't remember why...
[Sat Dec 27 2008] [18:41:47] <boemann> and maybe enkithan, pinheiro can argue either \
way [Sat Dec 27 2008] [18:42:05] Join jaham has joined this channel \
(n=jan@p5B3FA00A.dip0.t-ipconnect.de). [Sat Dec 27 2008] [18:42:17] <CyrilleB> but it \
had to do with something that in krita the opacity belong to the painting operation \
rather than color itself [Sat Dec 27 2008] [18:42:58] <pinheiro> for me in vectors i \
use the opacity thing just like rgba [Sat Dec 27 2008] [18:43:01] <boemann> CyrilleB: \
yes and it clearly isn't fixable for 2.0, but it should be fixable to at least fool \
the user [Sat Dec 27 2008] [18:43:12] <boemann> in 2.1 i mean
[Sat Dec 27 2008] [18:43:54] <boemann> i mean an implementation detail should prevent \
a good ui [Sat Dec 27 2008] [18:43:55] <CyrilleB> oh but there isn't technical \
limitation [Sat Dec 27 2008] [18:44:04] <boemann> ah
[Sat Dec 27 2008] [18:44:06] <CyrilleB> it was user interaction choice...
[Sat Dec 27 2008] [18:44:38] * boemann would like some user input here
[Sat Dec 27 2008] [18:44:43] <enkithan> yeah me too, I'm used to opacity with color \
only in vector tools, in Illustrator the separation of color/transparency bothered me \
[Sat Dec 27 2008] [18:45:02] <boemann> enkithan: and in krita? [Sat Dec 27 2008] \
[18:45:29] <boemann> you'd prefer them together there too? [Sat Dec 27 2008] \
[18:45:32] <pinheiro> enkithan: illustrator s rather limited in that filed [Sat Dec \
27 2008] [18:45:55] <pinheiro> new illustrator alows for alpha in gradients [Sat Dec \
27 2008] [18:46:06] * pinheiro couse of me btw ;) [Sat Dec 27 2008] [18:46:17] \
<boemann> :) [Sat Dec 27 2008] [18:46:39] <pinheiro> mostly couse of svg and inkscape \
but they dont know that :P [Sat Dec 27 2008] [18:46:49] <enkithan> boemann: for \
raster editors, i'm used to how it works now, I can't tell if it's better or not [Sat \
Dec 27 2008] [18:47:00] <enkithan> pinheiro: ah nice ! [Sat Dec 27 2008] [18:47:30] \
<CyrilleB> there is some logic in doing differently for karbon and krita [Sat Dec 27 \
2008] [18:47:38] <pinheiro> yeah no more need for using mask's [Sat Dec 27 2008] \
[18:47:43] <CyrilleB> in karbon, the transparancy is an inner property of the vector \
shape [Sat Dec 27 2008] [18:47:59] <CyrilleB> while in krita, the transparency \
defines the strength of the painting [Sat Dec 27 2008] [18:48:34] <pinheiro> i would \
not worrie to much vector artists usulau are not arster ones [Sat Dec 27 2008] \
[18:48:39] <pinheiro> raster [Sat Dec 27 2008] [18:48:43] <boemann> CyrilleB: that \
las argument doesn't say why it should be part of the paint op [Sat Dec 27 2008] \
[18:48:57] <pinheiro> so making it diferent is not terrible [Sat Dec 27 2008] \
[18:49:04] <CyrilleB> boemann: it's part of the tool [Sat Dec 27 2008] [18:49:17] \
<pinheiro> if that hads collfuncionality [Sat Dec 27 2008] [18:49:23] <boemann> it's \
say strength is part of the pain property [Sat Dec 27 2008] [18:49:26] <boemann> \
paint [Sat Dec 27 2008] [18:49:46] <boemann> unless you mean how much you push with \
the pen on paper? [Sat Dec 27 2008] [18:50:15] <CyrilleB> it's also logical to have \
it close to the choise of the painting mode [Sat Dec 27 2008] [18:50:31] <boemann> or \
to the choice of color [Sat Dec 27 2008] [18:50:43] <boemann> you can argue either \
way with that [Sat Dec 27 2008] [18:51:15] <boemann> actually i'd say i could make \
sense for krita to have alpha bothe as push strength and as part of the color [Sat \
Dec 27 2008] [18:51:22] <boemann> one is push strentgh [Sat Dec 27 2008] [18:51:23] \
<CyrilleB> sure you can either way... [Sat Dec 27 2008] [18:51:28] <boemann> the \
other dilution of the paint [Sat Dec 27 2008] [18:52:05] <CyrilleB> yes but offering \
twice the same option in the UI is loss of space and confusing [Sat Dec 27 2008] \
[18:52:39] <boemann> true except it shouldn't be the same option [Sat Dec 27 2008] \
[18:52:51] <boemann> but rather two walues that are multiplied [Sat Dec 27 2008] \
[18:53:17] <boemann> however [Sat Dec 27 2008] [18:53:35] <boemann> one problem with \
no alpha in krita color is that it makes it much harder to reuse dialogs [Sat Dec 27 \
2008] [18:54:07] <CyrilleB> setAlphaVisible( true/false ); <= problem solved [Sat Dec \
27 2008] [18:54:25] <boemann> i meant for the layout of the dialogs [Sat Dec 27 2008] \
[18:54:30] <boemann> it will look different [Sat Dec 27 2008] [18:55:04] <boemann> \
and then what should kword doo [Sat Dec 27 2008] [18:55:36] <boemann> or even krita \
when embedding a karbon path [Sat Dec 27 2008] [18:56:16] <CyrilleB> hum... "krita \
when embedding a karbon path" would allow to select transparency like it does \
currently [Sat Dec 27 2008] [18:56:46] <boemann> so whe you select a path the alpha \
would suddenly become visible in the color docker? [Sat Dec 27 2008] [18:57:46] \
<CyrilleB> well we are hitting an other problem... [Sat Dec 27 2008] [18:58:18] \
<boemann> which is? [Sat Dec 27 2008] [18:58:38] <CyrilleB> how krita's color \
selector work with respect to shapes [Sat Dec 27 2008] [18:58:44] <boemann> right
[Sat Dec 27 2008] [18:59:20] <boemann> if we want seamless integration (which i \
assume w do) then we wat color dockers to be koffice wide somehow [Sat Dec 27 2008] \
[18:59:34] <boemann> and only used by karbon and krita [Sat Dec 27 2008] [18:59:53] \
<CyrilleB> except that krita and karbon have different need... [Sat Dec 27 2008] \
[18:59:58] <boemann> right [Sat Dec 27 2008] [19:00:01] <boemann> it's a problem
[Sat Dec 27 2008] [19:00:14] <CyrilleB> well it's not really a problem...
[Sat Dec 27 2008] [19:00:34] <CyrilleB> my opinion is: krita color selector are only \
used to select the color for painting, and the color that will be used for a newly \
created shape [Sat Dec 27 2008] [19:00:49] <boemann> right
[Sat Dec 27 2008] [19:01:06] <CyrilleB> then to change the color of an existing \
shape, you go to the style docker, where you find a color+transparency selector [Sat \
Dec 27 2008] [19:01:09] <boemann> and? [Sat Dec 27 2008] [19:01:27] <boemann> hmm
[Sat Dec 27 2008] [19:01:38] <boemann> sounds very complicated and confusing too me
[Sat Dec 27 2008] [19:01:46] <CyrilleB> if we follow my opinion, "whe you select a \
path" => no alpha become suddently visible in the color docker [Sat Dec 27 2008] \
[19:02:13] <boemann> that is true, but on the expense of a very diffuclt workflow \
[Sat Dec 27 2008] [19:03:01] * boemann was wanting to change the style docker into a \
style tool tw [Sat Dec 27 2008] [19:03:07] <CyrilleB> why is that ? (and what is your \
proposed solution) [Sat Dec 27 2008] [19:03:09] <boemann> tw/btw
[Sat Dec 27 2008] [19:03:45] <boemann> it's cionfusing that you select the intial \
color in one place and the color afterwards in another place [Sat Dec 27 2008] \
[19:04:17] <boemann> if the user has the style docker open wouldn't he at least be \
confused if a color he select there is used for a ew path [Sat Dec 27 2008] \
[19:04:26] Join m4v has joined this channel (n=m4v-znc@unaffiliated/m4v). [Sat Dec 27 \
2008] [19:04:29] <boemann> that is how it would work in karbon [Sat Dec 27 2008] \
[19:04:32] <boemann> but not in krita [Sat Dec 27 2008] [19:04:45] <CyrilleB> well \
yes... the "select the intial color" part is only an other option to select the \
initial color [Sat Dec 27 2008] [19:05:13] <CyrilleB> because, I guess it would be \
confusing for the user that he select a color in that docker and then a different \
color is used while drawing [Sat Dec 27 2008] [19:05:29] <CyrilleB> the karbon way of \
initial color selection, should worked in krita too [Sat Dec 27 2008] [19:05:58] \
<boemann> ok but one has alpha and the other not [Sat Dec 27 2008] [19:06:14] \
<CyrilleB> and it's a problem because ? [Sat Dec 27 2008] [19:06:34] <boemann> beause \
depending on where he is looking the color look different [Sat Dec 27 2008] \
[19:06:50] <slangkamp> you could change the chooser depending on the layer type [Sat \
Dec 27 2008] [19:06:52] <boemann> and becasue how to choose which one to use? [Sat \
Dec 27 2008] [19:07:03] <CyrilleB> the last one that was edited [Sat Dec 27 2008] \
[19:07:28] <CyrilleB> meaning that krita color selector will emit purely opaque color \
[Sat Dec 27 2008] [19:07:34] <boemann> CyrilleB: yeah i thought you say that [Sat Dec \
27 2008] [19:07:48] <boemann> but that is still not transparent to the user [Sat Dec \
27 2008] [19:08:00] <CyrilleB> anyway, even if it sounds logical... I mean, if you \
think about what an user would do [Sat Dec 27 2008] [19:08:01] <boemann> and if the \
user then select a color with alpha in the style docker [Sat Dec 27 2008] [19:08:06] \
<CyrilleB> 1) select the color [Sat Dec 27 2008] [19:08:13] <boemann> and draws some \
pixels then the alpha is lost [Sat Dec 27 2008] [19:08:13] <CyrilleB> 2) the draw \
something in krita's canvas [Sat Dec 27 2008] [19:08:22] <CyrilleB> 3) wants to add a \
vector shape [Sat Dec 27 2008] [19:08:40] <CyrilleB> 2) and 3) are in continuity, so \
it's likely that he would want the same color [Sat Dec 27 2008] [19:09:09] <CyrilleB> \
now that I have said that, one can find an other logical workflow as well, and we \
probably need user data, and users study to see if we are wrong or not [Sat Dec 27 \
2008] [19:09:11] <boemann> that is a rather big assumption [Sat Dec 27 2008] \
[19:09:28] <boemann> yeah [Sat Dec 27 2008] [19:09:49] <boemann> maybe a blog asking \
for input from users? [Sat Dec 27 2008] [19:10:08] <boemann> it's not scientific but \
the best we can do [Sat Dec 27 2008] [19:10:37] <CyrilleB> well, yes... that's \
problem... it's about as useless as having the discution here... [Sat Dec 27 2008] \
[19:10:50] <boemann> though i guess it will not be as enlightend as this discussion \
has revealed [Sat Dec 27 2008] [19:11:20] <boemann> except we get imput from more \
people [Sat Dec 27 2008] [19:11:49] <boemann> ok now on to the actual color selectors
[Sat Dec 27 2008] [19:12:20] <boemann> I assume we are not going to mess with the \
concept of foreground/background presets [Sat Dec 27 2008] [19:12:44] <boemann> ie a \
"current" color [Sat Dec 27 2008] [19:13:20] <boemann> this require the clasic two \
boxes button- right? [Sat Dec 27 2008] [19:13:23] <CyrilleB> \
(http://www.uoregon.edu/~ftepfer/SchlFacilities/TireSwingTable.html /me can't find \
the even nicer version of that) [Sat Dec 27 2008] [19:13:44] <CyrilleB> I can't see a \
way to be more original [Sat Dec 27 2008] [19:14:18] <boemann> no i guess it makes \
the most sense for a paint app [Sat Dec 27 2008] [19:15:16] <boemann> again we have \
the difference in pixel and vector [Sat Dec 27 2008] [19:15:35] <boemann> in pixel \
the currrent color is the one used to paint [Sat Dec 27 2008] [19:15:58] <boemann> in \
vector it's only the initial color and thus more a property [Sat Dec 27 2008] \
[19:16:16] <CyrilleB> that said I wonder about the foreground/background thing... \
[Sat Dec 27 2008] [19:16:33] <boemann> go ahead [Sat Dec 27 2008] [19:16:38] \
<enkithan> in photoshop, you can use vector shape, but iirc, you use a color button + \
complex color selector to edit it, not the docker one, and the opacity is the one of \
the layer [Sat Dec 27 2008] [19:16:48] <CyrilleB> I think it's useless... and wrong \
design... [Sat Dec 27 2008] [19:16:53] Quit jaham has left this server (Remote closed \
the connection). [Sat Dec 27 2008] [19:17:12] * boemann cheers for CyrilleB - but \
didn't want to say anything [Sat Dec 27 2008] [19:17:25] * boemann not an artist
[Sat Dec 27 2008] [19:17:29] <CyrilleB> we inherits that from 80s paint application
[Sat Dec 27 2008] [19:17:45] Join jaham has joined this channel \
(n=jan@p5B3FA00A.dip0.t-ipconnect.de). [Sat Dec 27 2008] [19:17:47] * boemann likes \
where this is going [Sat Dec 27 2008] [19:17:59] <CyrilleB> the "main" use if for \
quickly switching between two colors [Sat Dec 27 2008] [19:18:35] <boemann> where a \
palette of recent colors would be much more intuitive :) [Sat Dec 27 2008] [19:18:46] \
<CyrilleB> it's also use for selection colors in the rectangle/ellipses/whatever \
tool, but there it's not really needed if we replace the combobox by a color selector \
[Sat Dec 27 2008] [19:18:49] <CyrilleB> boemann: exactly ! [Sat Dec 27 2008] \
[19:19:14] <boemann> CyrilleB: exactly [Sat Dec 27 2008] [19:19:16] <CyrilleB> recent \
color, or just any user defined palette [Sat Dec 27 2008] [19:19:21] <boemann> yes
[Sat Dec 27 2008] [19:19:25] <CyrilleB> (but that's a 2.1 thing)
[Sat Dec 27 2008] [19:19:29] <boemann> true
[Sat Dec 27 2008] [19:19:30] <CyrilleB> (or even 2.2)
[Sat Dec 27 2008] [19:19:35] <boemann> also true :)
[Sat Dec 27 2008] [19:20:26] <jaham> i may have mised something but what you are \
saying is that switching between foreground/background color is pointless? [Sat Dec \
27 2008] [19:20:29] <boemann> what do pinheiro, slangkamp , jaham , enkithan think of \
this [Sat Dec 27 2008] [19:20:50] <CyrilleB> jaham: yes
[Sat Dec 27 2008] [19:20:59] <CyrilleB> jaham: or rather that it can be better made
[Sat Dec 27 2008] [19:21:21] <jaham> so how does the user then choose what color to \
set background/foreground? [Sat Dec 27 2008] [19:21:29] * boemann gives CyrilleB a \
big hug for bringing this up :) [Sat Dec 27 2008] [19:21:30] <enkithan> I use it a \
lot, but with the X shortcut (in photoshop), often like every 5 seconds when I paint \
^^ [Sat Dec 27 2008] [19:21:46] <CyrilleB> jaham: in krita, it's more "color 1" and \
"color 2" [Sat Dec 27 2008] [19:21:55] <enkithan> to switch color I mean, no as a \
palette [Sat Dec 27 2008] [19:22:07] <CyrilleB> enkithan: yes but you use it for \
quickly changing between colors, that's usefull, and I want to keep it [Sat Dec 27 \
2008] [19:22:11] <boemann> enkithan: but the x short cut coul just select the last \
recent clor [Sat Dec 27 2008] [19:22:12] <CyrilleB> I use it that much too
[Sat Dec 27 2008] [19:22:30] <jaham> CyrilleB: whatever you call that, it's two \
different properties of a shape [Sat Dec 27 2008] [19:22:34] <boemann> enkithan: then \
it would work the same [Sat Dec 27 2008] [19:22:42] <CyrilleB> (or you could limit \
your palette to two) [Sat Dec 27 2008] [19:22:48] <CyrilleB> jaham: for shapes I \
agree... [Sat Dec 27 2008] [19:23:04] <boemann> jaham: yes it's a property, but..
[Sat Dec 27 2008] [19:23:07] <CyrilleB> jaham: but here we are speaking of \
background/foreground for painting in krita [Sat Dec 27 2008] [19:23:20] <boemann> we \
are not saying it shouldn't be [Sat Dec 27 2008] [19:23:34] <jaham> ok then i \
obviously missed that :-) [Sat Dec 27 2008] [19:23:40] <boemann> just that background \
could be a property like say corner shape or what ever [Sat Dec 27 2008] [19:23:48] \
<slangkamp> it's not stroke/background color [Sat Dec 27 2008] [19:24:12] <boemann> \
slangkamp: explain? [Sat Dec 27 2008] [19:24:26] Join pippin has joined this channel \
(n=pippin@bilk.XCF.Berkeley.EDU). [Sat Dec 27 2008] [19:24:38] <CyrilleB> (oh a spy \
;) ) [Sat Dec 27 2008] [19:24:42] <boemann> heh
[Sat Dec 27 2008] [19:24:58] <pippin> just checking the topic :P
[Sat Dec 27 2008] [19:25:20] <slangkamp> boemann: well fore/background color in krita \
is not the same a shape stroke/background color [Sat Dec 27 2008] [19:25:27] <pippin> \
last time I heard of this place I was explicitly invited :d [Sat Dec 27 2008] \
[19:25:38] <boemann> slangkamp: right that is the thing is started by saying [Sat Dec \
27 2008] [19:25:47] <boemann> pippin: you are welcome [Sat Dec 27 2008] [19:25:48] \
<CyrilleB> pippin: I have no problem to see you here [Sat Dec 27 2008] [19:25:57] \
<CyrilleB> (the spy thing was a joke ;) ) [Sat Dec 27 2008] [19:26:14] <enkithan> \
background/foreground can be used for paintop that uses two color, but it's rarely \
used, at least in my case [Sat Dec 27 2008] [19:26:28] <boemann> pippin: anyway ourr \
world domination plan have already been decided [Sat Dec 27 2008] [19:26:37] <pippin> \
I've got enough people touting KDE looking stickers on their laptop to spy on \
surrounding me [Sat Dec 27 2008] [19:27:19] <boemann> enkithan: pixel or vector case?
[Sat Dec 27 2008] [19:27:20] <pippin> boemann: and I continue to be entertained by \
your feeble attempts to bring down humanity with C++ :P [Sat Dec 27 2008] [19:27:31] \
<boemann> :) [Sat Dec 27 2008] [19:27:55] <CyrilleB> there is only one paintop at the \
moment that use the two color, but it can also work with gradients [Sat Dec 27 2008] \
[19:27:58] * pippin heads for a presentation called "Hacking the iPhone" hoping there \
is room [Sat Dec 27 2008] [19:28:23] <boemann> CyrilleB: what is that paintop
[Sat Dec 27 2008] [19:28:31] <enkithan> boemann: I mean when you draw a vector in \
krita, you tend to use fg a plain color and bg a stroke (that's what I tried the \
first time in krita) [Sat Dec 27 2008] [19:28:31] <boemann> and how does it use it
[Sat Dec 27 2008] [19:28:47] <CyrilleB> dynamic brush (not sure if the one in trunk \
has that, or only in krita-plugins) [Sat Dec 27 2008] [19:29:16] <CyrilleB> it use it \
to change it's color for background to foreground [Sat Dec 27 2008] [19:29:20] \
<boemann> but would defining the secnd color in the paintop be weird in that case? \
[Sat Dec 27 2008] [19:29:39] <CyrilleB> not at all [Sat Dec 27 2008] [19:29:51] * \
boemann could probably come up with a paint up that used 6 different colors if he \
tried hard enough [Sat Dec 27 2008] [19:30:25] <boemann> i like the idea of only a \
single current color [Sat Dec 27 2008] [19:30:35] <boemann> paint color in krita and \
stroke color in karbon [Sat Dec 27 2008] [19:30:45] <CyrilleB> and easy way to switch \
with other colors [Sat Dec 27 2008] [19:30:47] <boemann> and that any secondary \
colors are properties [Sat Dec 27 2008] [19:30:50] <boemann> right
[Sat Dec 27 2008] [19:31:10] <boemann> pinheiro: you still here?
[Sat Dec 27 2008] [19:31:20] <boemann> enkithan: you too
[Sat Dec 27 2008] [19:31:33] <boemann> how often do you actually use the background \
color [Sat Dec 27 2008] [19:31:46] <boemann> or don't you more often use the gradient \
afterwards [Sat Dec 27 2008] [19:32:04] <boemann> at least that is how i understood \
pinheiro to work [Sat Dec 27 2008] [19:32:20] <boemann> 1) draw the path 2) apply a \
gradient [Sat Dec 27 2008] [19:32:30] <boemann> or 2)apply a solid color
[Sat Dec 27 2008] [19:32:34] * pippin is tempted to split fill and stroke for vector \
graphics to be two separate ops [Sat Dec 27 2008] [19:33:15] <boemann> actually jaham \
what pippin just said is also what i talked to you about [Sat Dec 27 2008] [19:33:25] \
<boemann> and that pinheiro supported me in [Sat Dec 27 2008] [19:33:48] <pippin> not \
to keep the state of tool options simple, but to split down the composition graph \
into its smaller logical primitives [Sat Dec 27 2008] [19:34:10] <CyrilleB> lol
[Sat Dec 27 2008] [19:34:13] <boemann> THOUGH just because one artist works that way \
doesn't mean we should spoil it for everyone [Sat Dec 27 2008] [19:34:42] <boemann> i \
must say i think that pinheiro's way of working is what is the norm for artists [Sat \
Dec 27 2008] [19:34:53] <boemann> vector artists [Sat Dec 27 2008] [19:35:24] \
<boemann> for pixel i don't know - a shame basse hasn't joined us [Sat Dec 27 2008] \
[19:35:51] <pippin> combined fill / stroke options on a path feel like postscript \
legacy (not quite, in ps it is separate but to represent it compactly SVG goes down \
this route ... ) [Sat Dec 27 2008] [19:36:15] <jaham> boemann: so something like done \
in 3d tools: creating the object and then colorizing/texturerizing it? [Sat Dec 27 \
2008] [19:36:22] <boemann> jaham: yes [Sat Dec 27 2008] [19:36:37] <jaham> i see
[Sat Dec 27 2008] [19:36:39] <boemann> though with the stroke in the current color \
still [Sat Dec 27 2008] [19:38:38] <pippin> (editing a shape demands the ability to \
clone / link paths if you split them separately, being able to do so can be important \
in other workflows as well) [Sat Dec 27 2008] [19:38:41] Part pippin has left this \
channel. [Sat Dec 27 2008] [19:38:56] Join ThomasZ has joined this channel \
(n=zander@kde/zander). [Sat Dec 27 2008] [19:39:05] <boemann> hi ThomasZ 
[Sat Dec 27 2008] [19:39:19] * ThomasZ missed it, right? :/
[Sat Dec 27 2008] [19:39:26] <boemann> msot of it
[Sat Dec 27 2008] [19:39:34] <boemann> we are not done yet though
[Sat Dec 27 2008] [19:40:23] <boemann> ok lets get back to the color selectors
[Sat Dec 27 2008] [19:40:51] <boemann> say we have a current color that we need to \
select with the color selector [Sat Dec 27 2008] [19:41:10] <boemann> we obviously \
need the recentcolor palette we talked about [Sat Dec 27 2008] [19:41:24] <jaham> \
right [Sat Dec 27 2008] [19:41:30] <boemann> (which is already part of the \
colorpopupbutton) [Sat Dec 27 2008] [19:41:53] <boemann> which i was proposing to \
reuse as our swatch docker [Sat Dec 27 2008] [19:42:05] <boemann> actually i think \
boud have already done that in krita [Sat Dec 27 2008] [19:42:35] <boemann> so the \
second docker is the wheel (whatever) thing [Sat Dec 27 2008] [19:43:12] <boemann> i \
agree with CyrilleB that the small one is the best bet for a permanent visible docker \
[Sat Dec 27 2008] [19:43:36] <jaham> plus the opacity [Sat Dec 27 2008] [19:43:50] \
<boemann> lets not open that again ;) [Sat Dec 27 2008] [19:43:57] <boemann> but yeah
[Sat Dec 27 2008] [19:44:49] <jaham> if krita is not using the opacity, fine, but all \
other apps are using it still [Sat Dec 27 2008] [19:45:05] <boemann> right that is \
how 2.0 will be [Sat Dec 27 2008] [19:45:20] <boemann> krita can discuss it later \
then [Sat Dec 27 2008] [19:46:06] <boemann> is the small one enough for vector \
artists? [Sat Dec 27 2008] [19:46:16] <boemann> enkithan, pinheiro ?
[Sat Dec 27 2008] [19:46:51] <boemann> ok no answer
[Sat Dec 27 2008] [19:47:13] <boemann> but lets assume it is
[Sat Dec 27 2008] [19:47:20] <CyrilleB> does other application need a permanently \
visible color selector ? [Sat Dec 27 2008] [19:47:32] <boemann> we still want other \
more elaborate forms of colorspecification to be available [Sat Dec 27 2008] \
[19:47:41] <boemann> CyrilleB: good question [Sat Dec 27 2008] [19:47:50] <boemann> i \
hope not [Sat Dec 27 2008] [19:47:52] <CyrilleB> (I have only had positive feedback \
from artists using the small color selector) [Sat Dec 27 2008] [19:48:00] <enkithan> \
my only critic is that there is no color button, so it's hard to really see what \
color you choose [Sat Dec 27 2008] [19:48:03] <boemann> good to hear
[Sat Dec 27 2008] [19:48:15] <CyrilleB> even if there is room for improvement... but \
that will be for later, and won't affect the general layout [Sat Dec 27 2008] \
[19:48:37] <boemann> enkithan: that is something that surely needs to be adressed \
[Sat Dec 27 2008] [19:49:14] <boemann> and my idea was that you could press that \
color patch to bring up another kind of colorselector [Sat Dec 27 2008] [19:49:18] \
<CyrilleB> enkithan: if the the background/foreground thing is replaced by a plain \
color button, would that be good enough, or is it to far from the docker ? [Sat Dec \
27 2008] [19:49:48] <CyrilleB> (and in fact, while not clearly visible, but the color \
patch is plain color) [Sat Dec 27 2008] [19:50:03] <CyrilleB> and yes it should bring \
up the full color selector dialog we still need to talk about [Sat Dec 27 2008] \
[19:50:19] <CyrilleB> and also, it should show the color values as a tooltip [Sat Dec \
27 2008] [19:50:23] <enkithan> CyrilleB: I'd prefer it to be in the docker [Sat Dec \
27 2008] [19:50:51] <CyrilleB> enkithan: ok [Sat Dec 27 2008] [19:51:01] <CyrilleB> \
(there is still room on top of the hue selector) [Sat Dec 27 2008] [19:51:01] \
<boemann> having it in the docker would also be good for karbon [Sat Dec 27 2008] \
[19:51:40] <enkithan> boemann: yeah a more complete color selector that would appears \
when clicking on a button would be great, for pasting color etc.. when you have \
specifi color to use [Sat Dec 27 2008] [19:51:54] * boemann notes that with the \
addition of an opacity slider there is even more room [Sat Dec 27 2008] [19:52:07] \
<boemann> enkithan: right and CyrilleB already said so too [Sat Dec 27 2008] \
[19:53:16] <CyrilleB> well there isn't really room for the opacity slider... [Sat Dec \
27 2008] [19:53:24] <boemann> below or above :) [Sat Dec 27 2008] [19:54:20] \
<boemann> ok [Sat Dec 27 2008] [19:54:24] <CyrilleB> on the other hand the color \
slider, could be use as the color button needed by enkithan [Sat Dec 27 2008] \
[19:54:38] <CyrilleB> so yes, it could take on that space, but also, we don't need in \
krita [Sat Dec 27 2008] [19:54:47] <CyrilleB> and we said that other applications \
didn't need the docker... [Sat Dec 27 2008] [19:54:55] <boemann> well karbon does
[Sat Dec 27 2008] [19:55:07] <CyrilleB> does it ?
[Sat Dec 27 2008] [19:55:16] <slangkamp> karbon has the style docker
[Sat Dec 27 2008] [19:55:18] <boemann> i assumed as much
[Sat Dec 27 2008] [19:55:35] <boemann> slangkamp: which is the thing i proposed to \
change [Sat Dec 27 2008] [19:55:42] <CyrilleB> again ?
[Sat Dec 27 2008] [19:55:52] <boemann> what again?
[Sat Dec 27 2008] [19:56:18] <CyrilleB> changing the style docker...
[Sat Dec 27 2008] [19:56:22] Part ThomasZ has left this channel.
[Sat Dec 27 2008] [19:56:34] <m4v> about the recent color palette, I think the colors \
in the palette should manually picked by the artist and not updated everytime the \
artist picks a new color, otherwise it would be easy to lose colors the artist migth \
wanted to use (but not so frecuently) [Sat Dec 27 2008] [19:56:35] <boemann> right, \
to make the style docker into a style tool to fit the workflow i described [Sat Dec \
27 2008] [19:56:37] <CyrilleB> after berlin week-end, a lot of things were changed... \
which included removing the color selector ? [Sat Dec 27 2008] [19:57:06] <CyrilleB> \
m4v: some artists have requested to have a recent color palette, I guess the palette \
should be user selectable [Sat Dec 27 2008] [19:57:19] <boemann> so the style tool is \
used to apply stuff in an action after stroking [Sat Dec 27 2008] [19:57:52] \
<boemann> m4v: i think we want both kinds of palettes [Sat Dec 27 2008] [19:58:13] \
<CyrilleB> ah yes, ok, I agree it's more logical to me [Sat Dec 27 2008] [19:58:18] \
<m4v> boemann: i agree that [Sat Dec 27 2008] [19:59:16] * boemann thinks we have it \
all covered exept for how the advanced colorselector should look [Sat Dec 27 2008] \
[19:59:28] <slangkamp> boemann: but does karbon need more than the style docker? [Sat \
Dec 27 2008] [20:00:05] <boemann> slangkamp: it would then need the colorselector to \
selct current color and the style tool to change background etc [Sat Dec 27 2008] \
[20:00:33] <boemann> *select stroke color [Sat Dec 27 2008] [20:01:04] <slangkamp> I \
don't understand what you mean [Sat Dec 27 2008] [20:01:19] <boemann> ok here goes \
then: [Sat Dec 27 2008] [20:01:34] <boemann> there should be the small color selctor \
in a docker [Sat Dec 27 2008] [20:01:39] <boemann> with opacity :)
[Sat Dec 27 2008] [20:01:49] <boemann> no style docker
[Sat Dec 27 2008] [20:02:13] <boemann> the user then draws a path using the selected \
color as stroke -no background applied [Sat Dec 27 2008] [20:02:36] <boemann> the \
user would then choose the style tool [Sat Dec 27 2008] [20:02:42] <boemann> and \
apply a background [Sat Dec 27 2008] [20:03:11] <boemann> I say background because it \
sould be possible to apply either solid,patten or gradient with the same tool [Sat \
Dec 27 2008] [20:03:37] <boemann> that is how i've talked it over with pinheiro to be \
the most logical way  [Sat Dec 27 2008] [20:04:00] <jaham> boemann: also stroke \
gradient should be done in the style tool right? [Sat Dec 27 2008] [20:04:09] \
<boemann> right [Sat Dec 27 2008] [20:04:46] <jaham> and when the user wants to \
change the stroke color later will he use the style tool too or use the color docker \
[Sat Dec 27 2008] [20:04:47] <jaham> ? [Sat Dec 27 2008] [20:04:55] <boemann> \
actually pinheiro explained how in the new illustrator you can have severaly strokes \
[Sat Dec 27 2008] [20:05:28] <jaham> huh? [Sat Dec 27 2008] [20:05:32] * CyrilleB \
think that a "style" swatch (like color swatches but for styles) will be cool [Sat \
Dec 27 2008] [20:05:39] <boemann> so there will be selector in the style tool wher \
you select if you are changing the background,stroke,1 stroke 2, etc [Sat Dec 27 \
2008] [20:05:51] <CyrilleB> (but that's a different story) [Sat Dec 27 2008] \
[20:06:26] <jaham> and what exactly will stroke1, stroke2 mean [Sat Dec 27 2008] \
[20:06:35] <boemann> jaham: yeah so the stroke is painted sevearl times with eg \
different colors  [Sat Dec 27 2008] [20:06:53] <boemann> pinheiro: claims it's a good \
feature [Sat Dec 27 2008] [20:07:10] <boemann> not for anywhere near karbon 2.0 \
though :) [Sat Dec 27 2008] [20:07:21] <jaham> boemann: ok, but then there is no file \
format to save that (except the illustrator one probably) [Sat Dec 27 2008] \
[20:07:47] <boemann> right that is something to be found out eventually [Sat Dec 27 \
2008] [20:08:25] <jaham> ok so the stroke color is changed by the style tool also? \
[Sat Dec 27 2008] [20:08:38] <boemann> yes afterwards if wanted [Sat Dec 27 2008] \
[20:09:00] <boemann> just as you can change it into a gradient or pattern [Sat Dec 27 \
2008] [20:09:08] <jaham> so the color docker is actually only used as a "painting" \
color [Sat Dec 27 2008] [20:09:13] <boemann> i agree though that this makes the color \
selector a bit redundant [Sat Dec 27 2008] [20:09:20] <boemann> yes
[Sat Dec 27 2008] [20:09:26] <jaham> i see
[Sat Dec 27 2008] [20:09:51] <boemann> if the user doesn't find it useful he can \
always close it then [Sat Dec 27 2008] [20:09:59] <jaham> and the color is only ever \
changed by the user and not updated from the current selection [Sat Dec 27 2008] \
[20:10:06] <boemann> leave it as black or something [Sat Dec 27 2008] [20:10:13] \
<boemann> yes  [Sat Dec 27 2008] [20:10:13] <jaham> ok
[Sat Dec 27 2008] [20:10:38] <boemann> at least that is how the initial design is \
thought [Sat Dec 27 2008] [20:10:59] <boemann> I'll write all of this down and mail \
it to the mailing list [Sat Dec 27 2008] [20:11:12] <boemann> in a noce coherent \
proposal [Sat Dec 27 2008] [20:11:14] <boemann> nice
[Sat Dec 27 2008] [20:11:24] <jaham> great
[Sat Dec 27 2008] [20:11:29] <jaham> then the next problem would be to find a \
sensible interface for the quite complex style tool [Sat Dec 27 2008] [20:11:46] \
<boemann> pinheiro: and i have already discussed that  [Sat Dec 27 2008] [20:11:47] \
<jaham> but you already said you will come up with one [Sat Dec 27 2008] [20:12:00] \
<enkithan> ah ok so the style panel is becoming what the appearance panel is in \
Illustrator ? [Sat Dec 27 2008] [20:12:24] <boemann> sorry I don't know illustrator \
well enough [Sat Dec 27 2008] [20:12:27] * slangkamp has to go in 5 minutes
[Sat Dec 27 2008] [20:12:40] <jaham> after that we should rename karbob back to \
KIllustrator :-) [Sat Dec 27 2008] [20:12:40] <boemann> yeah i think we are almost \
done for now [Sat Dec 27 2008] [20:12:48] <jaham> *karbon
[Sat Dec 27 2008] [20:12:52] <boemann> jaham: :)
[Sat Dec 27 2008] [20:13:00] <enkithan> it's a panel with all effects/properties set \
to a shape [Sat Dec 27 2008] [20:13:06] <boemann> only thing left is the advanced \
colorselector [Sat Dec 27 2008] [20:13:12] <enkithan> + that show
[Sat Dec 27 2008] [20:13:31] <boemann> enkithan: then it might not be completely that
[Sat Dec 27 2008] [20:13:42] <boemann> phew no need to rename karbon ;)
[Sat Dec 27 2008] [20:13:51] <slangkamp> I think we should put a list with all needed \
color choosers and mockups on the wiki [Sat Dec 27 2008] [20:14:12] <boemann> \
slangkamp: yes that is where i'm going to write this [Sat Dec 27 2008] [20:14:44] \
<boemann> as for the advance we have already seen one email, which i think gives lot \
of though [Sat Dec 27 2008] [20:15:28] <boemann> still i think we should allow the \
user to cchoose between box,wheel and triangle etc [Sat Dec 27 2008] [20:15:46] \
<boemann> but I think we should postpone that for our next irc meeting [Sat Dec 27 \
2008] [20:15:49] <boemann> agree? [Sat Dec 27 2008] [20:15:59] <slangkamp> ok
[Sat Dec 27 2008] [20:16:19] <boemann> ok thank you all then, i'll write something up \
on the wiki and mail the ml [Sat Dec 27 2008] [20:16:51] <slangkamp> I'm leaving bye
[Sat Dec 27 2008] [20:16:56] <boemann> bye all
[Sat Dec 27 2008] [20:17:12] Quit slangkamp has left this server ("Konversation \
terminated!").



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