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List:       koffice-devel
Subject:    Re: OO formats (Re: A killer app for KOffice/KDE?)
From:       Nicolas Goutte <nicolasg () snafu ! de>
Date:       2003-02-25 22:30:32
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On Tuesday 25 February 2003 22:11, shaheed wrote:
> Hi all,

My comments are based on what I know of OO's file format. I may have missed a 
few things.

>
> I haven't reviewed the OO formats in detail recently, (its a few hundred
> pages), but when I last looked, it did not seem to allow arbitrary
> relationships between frames/framesets. Perhaps someone can correct me, but
> IIRC:

For relation between frames, there are the chains (section 2.6.1)

>
> 1. It had the MS concept of sections rather than framesets

Sections are not framesets. OO has frames, which seems to be much the same as 
our framesets.

One difference is that OOWriter needs always anchors. But it supports 
anchors based on pages.

Sections are something very interesting too, especially if you start using 
long documents (especially documents having different parts in it.)

>
> 2. It had support for columns as opposed to general frames

We will have to have columns one day or another. You might import from a 
foreign format to DTP modus but you cannot export it back into columns.

(This problem exists (or will appear) for at least these file formats: 
AbiWord, MS Word, RTF, HTML with CSS 3 (draft))

>
> 3. I got the feeling that table cells are not first class containers which
> I certainly always hoped they would be in KWord (though, with hindsight, I
> suspect this omission cannot be really true - it may be more the lack of
> distinction between word processing, spreadsheeting, presentation etc.
> which I dislike, but others seem to like)

I do not realy understand this one. Sorry!

>
> 4. I did not understand it's concept of linking. If its not equivalent to a
> fully general hyperlink, why not (it has those too, I think)? And if it is,
> then why not just say so?

What do you mean by it?

Do you mean XLink? But XLink is just a general way to say what HTML says by <a 
href="..."> (See http://www.w3c.org if you want more info on XLink.)

>
> If there is a serious plan to move from the current DTD, I would like
> serious consideration given to something based on (X)HTML/CSS. Now, I
> realise that an editor needs more structure than a "simple" renderer, but
> given how much stuff is really destined for the web, that would seem a
> logical step to me rather than starting from scratch.

XHTML/CSS had already been considered a few times in the past. (There is even 
at least one flamewar.)

Using XHTML+CSS was one of my first ideas for KWord and now the idea is nearly 
two years old. However nobody has liked this idea.

Even if we would use CSS with XHTML modular + MathML + SVG + a private XHTML 
extension, there are still problems.

The main problem is that nobody (including me) seems to be able to do a 
correct (X)HTML import filter. (No, KHTML is no help, see the current 
filter.)

The private XHTML extension would need to cover:
- variables
- links between CSS boxes (KWord's framesets.)
- headers/footers
- footnotes/endnotes
- multiple spaces
- flowing around absolute positionaed boxes (CSS cannot.)
- surely a few other features that I have forgoten.

Personally, I have not forgotten this project, but it will come when it will 
come. (So first, we need a correct XHTML + MathML + SVG (with CSS) export and 
import... so first we need a correct XHTML import... so first we need better 
CSS support... so first...)

>
> For me, an ideal would have been something with the frame structure of
> KWord, the detailed completness of OO, but relying on CSS as a base for all
> formatting.

The advantage of OO is that you can do it with a simple QDomDocument. However 
you cannot parse CSS like that. (And KHTML is jealous about its CSS results.)

>
> Thanks, Shaheed

Have a nice day/evening/night!

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> http://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/koffice-devel

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