[prev in list] [next in list] [prev in thread] [next in thread] 

List:       koffice-devel
Subject:    Re: frame placement (in KWord)
From:       Thomas Zander <zander () planescape ! com>
Date:       2001-11-10 17:23:02
[Download RAW message or body]

On Sat, Nov 10, 2001 at 06:00:02PM +0100, Laurent Montel wrote:
> Le Saturday 10 November 2001 17:33, Thomas Zander a ?crit :
...
> > While you are right that this works in all cases, we still have the problem
> > that users don't expect to have to click after a dialog has been shown. Or
> > in other words; after you click the insert button 1 action seems to be OK,
> > but 2 is not.
> >
> > You say that it is easy for you, but that is because you know how it works,
> > most users will not know this, and for them it is not easy.
> 
> It's for that I add a kmessagebox (=> "put cursor where ...")

So you acknoledge the problem and just point the user to work around it? 
Not really a good way IMO.

> > I did not know how MSWord inserted frames, but I have heard lots of times
> > that it sucks big time,  so perhaps its best to avoid copying  :)
> 
> Perhaps it's not good but a lot of people use all the time MSWord, and want to
> used kword will not understand how to position frame, because in MSWord
> we indicate where insert frame.

In the early days of KWord I asked around how MSWord handled frames, most people 
could not tell me since they did not use it. The ones that did said that they
did not want me to copy it since it was pretty bad (In fact everyone nodded
in sad agreement every time frames and MSWord came up)

So saying that we should do it because thats the way people are used to doing
it simply does not hold. People don't even use it!

> >
> > If there is no active cursor then we should do the most sane thing without
> > relying on user input, I know that lots of times it won't be what the user
> > wants but he can correct it afterwards, or simply press undo and position
> > the cursor and then insert again.
> 
> For me when a people want to insert a frame (inline mode), frame must be
> insert in text and not a top-left, and I don't think that a people understand 
> why he must re-do "undo" + "position cursor" +"insert-frame-inline".

I did not say that we should just insert it somewhere randomly on screen but
you must agree that most of the time the cursor will be in the text when people
think about inserting a picture or table.
I don't want to get into how people insert their texts, this is something that
is very different between various persons. I simply think differently from
you as I do position the cursor before I insert. I argue that inserting a picture
should not be different from inserting a text (by typing) or inserting a special
character or by simply pasting something from a clipboard..

> 
...

> 
> For me automatic is not all the time a good method.
> You force people to think before making an action (insert inline), it's not 
> good. Me (and I think a lot of people) when I write a letter (or 
> documentation), I doesn't think a my next action (for example inline frame)
> so I doesn't think where put my cursor before to click on button, after I know 
> where put my cursor, no ?
 
Exactly, I agree with you there. But you also ask people to think ahead when
clicking on the position. They have to think where it might look good before
they  can position it.
I say; just insert it where the cursor is and allow them to move it around
afterwards, which is really easy as you know. 

I was not saying people _should_ undo and reinsert, but they _can_ do that, 
they have a choice to work the way they want.

If you force people to select the position they will fail to understand that
they can move it afterwards. Look at wizards for an excelent example for this, 
most people restart the application when they made a mistake in a setup wizard,
simply because they have no idea that they can change the mistakes when
the wizards is not visible anymore.

Anyway, I don't want to get into an endless discusion about this, and I would
really like you to change this. But since you are coding it, you still are free
to make your own decisions.

Have a good weekend!
-- 
Thomas Zander                                            zander@earthling.net
The only thing worse than failure is the fear of trying something new

[Attachment #3 (application/pgp-signature)]
_______________________________________________
koffice-devel mailing list
koffice-devel@mail.kde.org
http://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/koffice-devel


[prev in list] [next in list] [prev in thread] [next in thread]