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List:       koffice-devel
Subject:    Re: frame placement (in KWord)
From:       Laurent Montel <lmontel () mandrakesoft ! com>
Date:       2001-11-10 17:00:02
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Le Saturday 10 November 2001 17:33, Thomas Zander a écrit :
> On Sat, Nov 10, 2001 at 05:19:56PM +0100, Laurent Montel wrote:
> > Le Saturday 10 November 2001 17:06, Thomas Zander a ?crit :
> > > Since Koffice release 1.0 I have been trying to find correct ways to
> > > insert content in KWord.
> > > We got complaints where people clicked the 'insert frame' icon, then
> > > got a dialog which they OK-ed and then nothing happened.
> > > Well, they needed to select where to insert the frame, and that is a
> > > problem, they are not used to that.
> > >
> > > I proposed that KWord should simply insert the frame where the users
> > > cursor was or somewhere top left on screen. (This is why I have been so
> > > irritating about the auto sizing of pictures ;) I still want it to be
> > > auto inserted though..
> > >
> > > I for this reason don't agree with the commits from this morning that
> > > add a click when inserting inline frames.
> >
> > Hi,
> > For me it's more easy to indicate where you want put your frame. Word use
> > the same method (perhaps it's not good), but I think all people know how
> > to do. You define after your position and not before, it's more logical
> > no ? Me when I want to create a inline frame, I click on button and after
> > I position my cursor, and not position my cursor and after click on the
> > button.
> >
> > If cursor is not active so I think that people doens't understand how to
> > do to position inline frame.
> > With my method, you can all the time position you frame, same as cursor
> > is inactive. No ?
>
> While you are right that this works in all cases, we still have the problem
> that users don't expect to have to click after a dialog has been shown. Or
> in other words; after you click the insert button 1 action seems to be OK,
> but 2 is not.
>
> You say that it is easy for you, but that is because you know how it works,
> most users will not know this, and for them it is not easy.

It's for that I add a kmessagebox (=> "put cursor where ...")


>
> I did not know how MSWord inserted frames, but I have heard lots of times
> that it sucks big time,  so perhaps its best to avoid copying  :)

Perhaps it's not good but a lot of people use all the time MSWord, and want to
used kword will not understand how to position frame, because in MSWord
we indicate where insert frame.


>
> If there is no active cursor then we should do the most sane thing without
> relying on user input, I know that lots of times it won't be what the user
> wants but he can correct it afterwards, or simply press undo and position
> the cursor and then insert again.

For me when a people want to insert a frame (inline mode), frame must be
insert in text and not a top-left, and I don't think that a people understand 
why he must re-do "undo" + "position cursor" +"insert-frame-inline".


>
> All DTPers I work with simply insert and then position the frame/picture
> whatever.
>
> > > A better solve would be to insert at cursor position or if we don't
> > > have an active cursor then simply insert it in the first textframe we
> > > encounter.
> > >
> > > Options are welcome.
>
> If you are unsure please consider doing it automatically.

For me automatic is not all the time a good method.
You force people to think before making an action (insert inline), it's not 
good. Me (and I think a lot of people) when I write a letter (or 
documentation), I doesn't think a my next action (for example inline frame)
so I doesn't think where put my cursor before to click on button, after I know 
where put my cursor, no ?

>
> I will probably be spending coming Friday on KWord, so you can also leave
> it for me. Alltough tables also still need work..

Bye
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