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List:       koffice-devel
Subject:    Re: [RFC] filter redesign
From:       Vadim Plessky <lucy-ples () mtu-net ! ru>
Date:       2001-09-13 8:23:37
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On Wednesday 12 September 2001 19:36, Nicolas Goutte wrote:
|   On Tuesday, 11. September 2001 14:45, Vadim Plessky wrote:
|   > I was wondering for some time why HTML exported by KWord, always was
|   > using <P> ... </P> for every paragraph.
|
|   Because a paragraph is a <p> element in HTML!

For sure :-)
And support for it is some kind of *legacy support*.
Web designers who still want to support Netscape 4.x (and MS IE 4.x), create 
a lot of netsted tables with 1pixel-size transparent GIFs, etc.
Web designers who don't care about Netscape anymore (and that's majority), 
use DIV and SPAN everywhere. Hopefully, latest Mozilla build can handle this.

IMO DIV is much more modern technics than *old* P and tables.
Note that you can even have scrollbar in fixed-size DIV element if context 
doesn't fit completely into it! :))
// not sure wether Konq supports it, though.

Major disadvantage of using P is that P *always* breaks line, and starts new 
block. So, if you want to have two paragraphs following each other - there is 
no, basically, a way to do this with P tag (except overriding CSS style with 
!importnat instruction and disbaling breaking)
With SPAN, you can do it easily. 

Another problem is putting image.
There is no problem to put an image inside DIV, but it's not very clear *how* 
<P> will behave if you placed picture inside.
Sorry it may sound a little bit OT for KWord/KPresenter itself, it's more 
KHTML/Konq related, but it seems there is some kind of misunderstanding what 
should be <P> used for.

IMPORTANT NOTE:
anyway, when you export image to HTML (either as IMG or as OBJECT of Image 
MIMEtype), you need to place it in some *bounding* structure.
If you placed just in <BOFY>, following some paragraph, you can get 
unexpected results. I was comparing MS IE, NN 4.76, Mozilla 0.9 and Konq, and 
found that results will be pretty inconsistent.
Options you have:
* classic (n TABLE, for NN 4.7 compatibility)
* in DIV / SPAN, a-la MS IE - but now it is W3C - compliant!
* using CSS (CSS2) formatting - sound good, but who will render it correctly?
While I personally would like to back last (3rd) option, I think second one 
(DIV/SPAN) is more practical.

// oh, eys, you can use IFRAME as well, and insert IMG into complimentary 
frame (html), but is seems to me a little bit overhead.

|
|   > While at a first glance it seems logical, almost for every paragraph
|   > you redefine style (font size, color, font name, etc.)
|   > It's much more convinient to use DIV, instead of <P>, for every
|   > paragraph.
|
|   The HTM 4.01 Specification defines <div> as "generic language/style
|   container", that is not a paragraph!

Yes.
That's why it's rather difficult to insert one paragraph in another, if you 
use P.
And there is no problem with it if you use DIV and SPAN.
|
|   > Then you don't have such limitations.
|   >
|   > At a moment, you just can't have nested paragraphs :-((
|
|   Since when does KWord support nested paragraphs? Or do I have missed
|   something?

I forgot to file wishlist for it. :-))
I supposed it's expected in future versions, and was just not implemented in 
KWord 1.1.
Are there any problems with nested paragraphs in QRT from QT3?
May be, we should bugreport TrollTech now, than?

|   > BTW: I found serious inconsistance when view exported from KWord HTML
|   > in different browsers.
|   > Reason: KHTML uses to much space *before* and *after* <P> (about 1em in
|   > each case), while Mozilla - only half of it.
|
|   That will change when the space before and after the paragraph will be
|   exported as CSS too. But then I am sure that I will have complaints like:
|   "But why there is no space between paragraphs in exported HTML."

I think default settings of KWord should be exported.
There is default setting for before and after paragraph space, right?
So you can export them in HTML.

|
|   > So IMO it's not good to count *default* behavior/style for P tag, it's
|   > better to define it each time (or to have extra option for this)
|
|   Sure, that is called style in KWord and class in CSS but I was trying to
| make a library for KWord export filters before finsih it. But however, I
| have the feeling that nobody cares anymore that I write this library when I
| read this thread.

No-no, I care!...
Sorry I was not very active on list recently, August was rather mixed for me 
and I decided to make some break, but I follow the list ...
Hope to participate more actively soon!
|
|   Have a nice day/evening/night!

Take care!
-- 

Vadim Plessky
http://kde2.newmail.ru  (English)
33 Window Decorations and 6 Widget Styles for KDE
http://kde2.newmail.ru/kde_themes.html
Do you have Arial font installed? Just test it!
http://kde2.newmail.ru/font_test_arial.html
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