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List:       koffice
Subject:    Re: karbon
From:       James Richard Tyrer <tyrerj () acm ! org>
Date:       2003-10-12 21:54:41
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Thomas Zander wrote:

> In KDE and KOffice all applications work on documents;  it is important to
> talk about the same things and a document-wide setting is the opposite of a
> applications wide setting.
> Look at the styleguide for this wording.
> http://developer.kde.org/documentation/standards/kde/style/basics/usage.html
> 
Another thing to read. :-)

> BTW; a document does not imply more then one page in my mind :-)  Nor does
> the styleguide (but thats the same thing ;)
> 
Maybe, maybe not.

> Anyway; you changed between 'document' and 'page' in one sentence; pointing
> to the same thing. So I guess we agree.
> 
> To conclude; application wide settings go in the settings menu; document
> settings go in the edit menu.

In any case, if you are going to call it a document, then the paper size is 
a document setting, but the margins on the page is a page setting.  You can 
set minimum margins on the paper size page to reflect the fact that the 
whole page isn't printable, but you still need to be able to set margins 
for the page in the edit menu.

> Again; see styleguide.
> http://developer.kde.org/documentation/standards/kde/style/basics/settings.html
> 
> 
>>>>In either case, the widget to set configure the
>>>>current page should pop up when you create a new document.
>>>
>>>Well; I'm sure the 'new' dialog can hold templates like A4 and such; since 
>>>most users don't want a custom size for most documents. This means no 
>>>extra controls have to be shown to the user.
>>>
>>
>>Yes, that might be a useful feature, but that would be 'Use Template" not 
>>'Create Document'
> 
> 
> Even a new empty document would be created from a template; see the other
> KOffice applications on how this is done.  Its only natural that Karbon
> follows their lead.
> 
I don't think that users should be required to create a template.  There 
should be some way to create a one time document.
> 
>>>>Also, it would be nice to be able to set the unit to DPI.  It would be
>>>>very nice if there was a choice, or if it was variable and not restricted
>>>>to square (i.e. separate for X and Y), but if not, 1200 DPI will do for a
>>>>start.
>>>
>>>
>>>DPI is not a unit; its a conversion from actual sizes (mm, pt, inch) to 
>>>pixels. 
>>
>>I presume that you have never used WordPerfect or XFig.  In WordPerfect, 
>>you can select 1200ths of an inch in the same place as mm, pt, inch, etc. 
>>In XFig, this (1200 DPI) is the only choice of measurement.
>>
>>
>>>Why are pixels relevant for this application?
>>>
>>
>>Because it can export to PNG. :-)
> 
> 
> Thats not a very good reason;  at exporting time the resolution of that PNG
> can be given, which is quite common in current application.

Yes, but it will look better if I have drawn it with the same resolution 
that I am exporting it to.

> If XFig forces the user to think in 1200dpi; and asks the user for measurements
> in that resolution then I understand your question a bit better.
> 
Yes, "forces" is a good word.  It is a good feature to have the high 
resolution, but it would be better if it was adjustable. :-)
> 
>>I suppose that it is for the same reason that it is relevant to XFig.  But, 
>>actually I am not talking about 'pixels', I am talking about DPI, a measure 
>>of resolution.
>>
>>>>Note that the DPI setting can be separate and the choice in this widget
>>>>would then just be DPI (or more accurately, just Dots).
>>>
>>>Dots are pixels; DPI is amount of pixels per inch; 
>>
>>No, that would be PPI.  DPI is dots per inch.
> 
> 
> Naturally you are right; its that most people don't know enough to make
> this distinction. I see you do then you will also know that DPI is only for
> outputting devices.
> As the dict says:
>  "DPI: The resolution of an output device like a laser printer or
>   imagesetter.  A standard office laser printer is 300 dpi. A standard
>   imagesetter is 2,540 dpi."
> 
> So; since we want to print to different printers, or even to a png, DPI
> is wrong to use. And XFig was assuming things we luckely left behind us.

Not always.  If I am creating something to be printed on a given printer, 
it will look better if I can create it using the resolution of the printer. 
  I presume that this is why 1200 dpi was added to WordPerfect.

> More; the feature request is one that I fear is not very usefull since most
> modern hardware does not work in one universally described resolution.

As I said, it would be better if the DPI setting was variable since some 
people have N*75 printers (300, 600, 1200 DPI) and some have N*72 printers 
(144, 288 DPI).

> In practice the DPI settings are only used when converting to a bitmap;
> something that is not document specific.

But it is printer specific, and most people have a specific printer.

In any case since it is something which other office suites offer, it 
should be seriously considered.

I also note that -- again something I learned from using XFig -- is that 
you should be able to use half units of the DPI resolution, (but that would 
normally be the smallest change needed).  That is, if you draw a filled 
rectangle, you want to use full units for its size and position.  But, if 
you are drawing a line an odd number of pixel wide, then you need to place 
its end points in the center of the pixels and you need half units to do 
this.  So, rather than being able to set any value with two decimal points, 
it would also be helpful to have a check box (call it pixel mode) where the 
only fraction would be: '.50' & '.00' -- that it would count 0.5 with each 
click.

NOTE: that if Karbon-14 is going to have pixmap support added, it is going 
to need to have DPI in any case.

--
JRT

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