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List:       koffice
Subject:    Re: karbon
From:       Thomas Zander <zander () microweb ! nl>
Date:       2003-10-11 20:51:58
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On Sat, Oct 11, 2003 at 12:29:32PM -0700, James Richard Tyrer wrote:
> Thomas Zander wrote:
> >On Thursday 09 October 2003 06:52, James Richard Tyrer wrote:
> >>If it only changes the current document, then it should be under: "Edit".
> >>If it is supposed to be saved as the default, then it is in the correct
> >>place, BUT there should be a way under: "Edit" to change the layout of
> >>the current page only.
> >
> >For clarity; you probably mean document instead of page.
> >
> No, I think that I meant the current page.  If you are going to think of 
> this as a document (more than one page) then you *do* need to be able to 
> set the margins for an individual page without changing them for all pages 
> in the document.

In KDE and KOffice all applications work on documents;  it is important to
talk about the same things and a document-wide setting is the opposite of a
applications wide setting.
Look at the styleguide for this wording.
http://developer.kde.org/documentation/standards/kde/style/basics/usage.html

BTW; a document does not imply more then one page in my mind :-)  Nor does
the styleguide (but thats the same thing ;)

Anyway; you changed between 'document' and 'page' in one sentence; pointing
to the same thing. So I guess we agree.

To conclude; application wide settings go in the settings menu; document
settings go in the edit menu.
Again; see styleguide.
http://developer.kde.org/documentation/standards/kde/style/basics/settings.html

> >>In either case, the widget to set configure the
> >>current page should pop up when you create a new document.
> >
> >Well; I'm sure the 'new' dialog can hold templates like A4 and such; since 
> >most users don't want a custom size for most documents. This means no 
> >extra controls have to be shown to the user.
> >
> Yes, that might be a useful feature, but that would be 'Use Template" not 
> 'Create Document'

Even a new empty document would be created from a template; see the other
KOffice applications on how this is done.  Its only natural that Karbon
follows their lead.

> >>Also, it would be nice to be able to set the unit to DPI.  It would be
> >>very nice if there was a choice, or if it was variable and not restricted
> >>to square (i.e. separate for X and Y), but if not, 1200 DPI will do for a
> >>start.
> >
> >
> >DPI is not a unit; its a conversion from actual sizes (mm, pt, inch) to 
> >pixels. 
> 
> I presume that you have never used WordPerfect or XFig.  In WordPerfect, 
> you can select 1200ths of an inch in the same place as mm, pt, inch, etc. 
> In XFig, this (1200 DPI) is the only choice of measurement.
> 
> >Why are pixels relevant for this application?
> >
> Because it can export to PNG. :-)

Thats not a very good reason;  at exporting time the resolution of that PNG
can be given, which is quite common in current application.
If XFig forces the user to think in 1200dpi; and asks the user for measurements
in that resolution then I understand your question a bit better.

> I suppose that it is for the same reason that it is relevant to XFig.  But, 
> actually I am not talking about 'pixels', I am talking about DPI, a measure 
> of resolution.
> >
> >>Note that the DPI setting can be separate and the choice in this widget
> >>would then just be DPI (or more accurately, just Dots).
> > 
> >Dots are pixels; DPI is amount of pixels per inch; 
> 
> No, that would be PPI.  DPI is dots per inch.

Naturally you are right; its that most people don't know enough to make
this distinction. I see you do then you will also know that DPI is only for
outputting devices.
As the dict says:
 "DPI: The resolution of an output device like a laser printer or
  imagesetter.  A standard office laser printer is 300 dpi. A standard
  imagesetter is 2,540 dpi."

So; since we want to print to different printers, or even to a png, DPI
is wrong to use. And XFig was assuming things we luckely left behind us.
More; the feature request is one that I fear is not very usefull since most
modern hardware does not work in one universally described resolution.
In practice the DPI settings are only used when converting to a bitmap;
something that is not document specific.

More info:
http://desktoppub.about.com/cs/intermediate/a/measure_dpi.htm

-- 
Thomas Zander
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