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List:       koffice
Subject:    Re: file formats [Re: Question about your KPresenter's review]
From:       Rob Landley <landley () trommello ! org>
Date:       2002-03-15 9:39:12
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On Friday 15 March 2002 02:01 am, Catherine Olanich Raymond wrote:

> > Windows is still costs money. Unless MS starts giving away Windows and MS
> > Office for free - it's doomed to loose marketshare.
>
> I see your reasoning, Vadim.  But things are different now than they were
> when the Mac was the better, more expensive system.

Microsoft was on the winning side of the macintosh vs PC war because the 
hardware fought all its battles for it.  Commodity hardware vs proprietary 
hardware, with two propreitary operating systems on top.  On one side you had 
guys willing to eat ramen noodles and lose sleep to get their stuff out ahead 
of the competition, and on the other side you had people playing to a captive 
audience.

Any comparison between microsoft's software and apple's software is a 
complete and utter side issue.  The only thing Microsoft did was prevent 
anybody else from selling operating systems on PCs (initially digital 
research making really bad calls and focusing on the 8 bit CP/M market 
instead of 16 bits for about five years too long, and later microsoft getting 
dirty signing exclusive per-motherboard "CPU tax" contracts with hardware 
manufacturers).  Other than that, the hardware won the day and dragged the 
software along with it, kicking and screaming...

As cathy pointed out, the american hardware market is now reaching saturation 
levels.  If we want to catch people while they're switching hardware, we have 
to focus on laptops.  The desktop market is saturated to the point of 
collapse, and users are going to switch entirely to laptops shortly.  The 
desktop form factor will be pushed upmarket to become server systems.  In a 
couple years you'll just plug a big flat panel display, full-sized keyboard, 
and rat into your laptop (which has a built-in UPS, expansion through USB and 
pcmcia, 802.11b wireless networking...)  Price is just a question of 
economies of scale, so laptops will become cheaper when their volume passes 
desktops.  You can already get new laptops for just under the magic $1000 
mark, and as a result they've pushed desktops under the $500 mark where they 
can't really afford to do any R&D...)

That said, the desktop to laptop hardware push won't replace the data 
communications formats here.  The original PC expansion was into territory 
where people didn't HAVE computers.  Now people are buying a SECOND machine 
for their house, and they'll want it to interoperate with the desktop machine 
they already have (for the year or so the two will co-exist, anyway, before 
they throw out the desktop and plug the laptop in to its keyboard, mouse, and 
monitor when they want better ergonomics...)  Plus there's the huge base of 
other machines out there (on the internet, and all your co-workers) that are 
running windows.  And unfortunately, since we still can't read and write word 
files, most of the laptops will be running windows.  (It's a big opportunity 
we're missing in the switch to laptops.  How many laptop hardware 
manufactuers are offering Linux preinstalled?  How many corporate customers 
want a desktop without a usable word processor?)

Cell phones became successful because they could call land-line phones.  
Methane and hydrogen-powered cars exist but the only "alternate" fuel you can 
really USE in your car is diesel, because that's what gas stations have.  
Then again electric cars are finally starting to arrive, and guess what: they 
convert gasoline into electricity via a turbine or fuel cell.  And you'll 
notice that all the online text is written in english, not in a new language. 
 (You can't reach a paperless office unless your computer has a printer.)

You CAN replace the existing network, but you've got to leverage it to do so. 
 CB radio was just like cell phones a decade earlier.  It was a fad, replaced 
by something that could interoperate with the mainstream.  It's retreated to 
a niche market with truckers, but then again Cobol's still around too...

> Here's another thing to consider.  There may be people who wouldn't mind to
> try out KWord.  The problem is not trying out KWord, it's that you really
> *can't* try out KWord unless you install Linux, at least on a partition or
> something.  That may be more than most people are willing to deal with
> without a big incentive.  My boss, who is intelligent but no computer
> expert, has told me that he has considered installing Red Hat 7.1 on his
> home machine, but was intimidated by the text on the box it comes in....

Yeah, OS/2 had the same problem.  Installing your own OS is basically for the 
people who feel comfortable assembling a computer out of parts, changing 
their car's oil themselves, doing their own sheetrock, fixing their own 
plumbing...

It's not hard, but not everybody's up for it.  This is why they invented 
preinstalled systems and installfests.  What your boss probably needs is 
jiffy-lube for computers.  ("Repartion the thing and install linux on it, and 
while you're at it, defragment the windows filesystem, check for viruses, and 
upgrade to the latest security patch.  I'll be in the waiting room...")

> > |   Come on, Vadim.  This time Rob is trying to use *your* analogy.  He's
> > |   pointing out that the last time a new format (e-books) was
> > | introduced, and works were put out solely in that format, people didn't
> > | jump to the new format simply to read those works.
> >
> > Yes - because e-books were more expensive than printed books!
> > Besides, you couldn't use it on any computers.
> > In my opinion, all e-book publishers were asking too much, offering not
> > enough.
>
> I don't disagree with that.  But as I have said, *free* is no bargain if it
> doesn't do what you want.  What the Linux community needs to consider is
> whether it is asking too much and offering not enough (though in a
> different way than the e-book publishers did).

I'd also like to point out that there's tons of books available in HTML 
format online.

Hasn't exactly knocked off the conventional publishing industry.  (Linux 
Journal's website doesn't seem to stop people from subscribing to the dead 
tree version, either.)

> > If Linus doesn't care about advocating something - why we should care?
>
> Well, maybe because you'd like to see people who are not Linux hackers use
> KOffice?

1) Linus doesn't advocate anything.  Linus doesn't even advocate Linux.

2) The BSD guys don't advocate Linux either.  But some of them use KDE.  So 
why care about Linux support, why not just support BSD?

3) Alan Cox doesn't advocate KDE, he's a Gnome user.  (And his wife's on the 
Gnome board of directors.)  He's written more actual Linux code than Linus 
has, so why advocate something other than he does?

What does this argument have to do with ANYTHING?

> > My reason is very simple: I see no chance to have a civil freedom while
> > we have *locked* (closed sourced, monopolized) software, like MS Office.
> > And don't have alternative for it.

From 1983 through 1997 Richard Stallman spent fifteen years screaming this at 
the top of his lungs.  I hear the hurd may actually finally ship later this 
year. :) 

This is an environmental argument.  "Without software freedom, bad things 
will happen in the future (possibly to our descendants)."  To which your 
average american replies "But it hasn't hurt me yet.  Meanwhile, I'm going to 
go get some coffee in a styrofoam cup, want some?"  People have too many 
problems to deal with that are right here, right now, and too immediate to be 
put off any longer.  Anything that CAN be procrastinated about will be, until 
it can't be anymore.  (This is a population whose members can resolve to lose 
10 pounds for thirty consecutive years without doing so.  When the easy way 
conflicts with the healthy way, which one are 90% of us going to choose?  
Every time...)

Freedom is a good supplemental argument, but as a main thrust it has always 
fallen flat, and will continue to do so until the predicted evils have 
actually happened, and need to be dealt with in the short term.  (At which 
point it's basically too late...)

Rob
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