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List:       kmail-devel
Subject:    Re: KMail User Interface
From:       Ralf Nolden <nolden () kde ! org>
Date:       2001-05-30 18:53:26
[Download RAW message or body]

Michael H=E4ckel wrote:
> =

> On Wednesday, 30. May 2001 16:51, Ralf Nolden wrote:
> >
> > Well, in fact I heard that this feature was in once but it shouldn't =
be
> > too hard. subfolders for drafts and outbox may be useless but that's =
the
> > same argument as saying the user should have the possibility to chang=
e
> > between the new column structure and the old one :)
> =

> If you send your queued mail and have subfolders in the outbox, do you =
then
> expect the folder to be sent?
good point :) =


> =

> And what is with the users, that switch from pine, mutt, Balsa, Evoluti=
on or
> XFMail to KMail?
What's XFMail and Balsa ? I heared about it but never saw it actually
and Evolution isn't officially released in a prouduction stage AFAIK.
That's why making KMail relly slick in the User interface makes so much
sense right now because lauri told me evolution really sucks in
stability but it's looking brilliant, and that's it what causes all the
hype. With kmail being so stable and full of features, it just needs to
look better :)

And for the ones using pine and mutt, if there's no converter in
kmailcvt and the folders can be converted directly, those users can do
it because they know what's going on on their system. Users using nsmail
don't usually :)
> =

> Actually this was already discussed some time ago and someone (Carsten?=
)
> wanted to implement it.
> I would at least like to have a context menu popping up which offers to=
 move
> the folder or to cancel the action, like it appears, when moving files =
with
> Konqueror.
Well, I think that is very redundant. I mean, if you move a folder up in
the tree you can move it back again. It's a drag'n drop action in the
same limited space you know, so there's no need for a cancel. Besides,
konqueror doesn't have a cancel :)

> =

> > yes. Agreed with Magnus as well, so I think this is the best choice t=
o
> > go and have the new behavior the default towards the user.
> =

> Hi, I didn't say anything about several coloums. I prefer the way it is=

> currently. When I don't have any unread mails, then I also don't need a=
n
> empty column for their number.
Yes. Well, agreed you're the maintainer, that gives your personal
preference a great influence in the behavoir. I agree with you that this
might be true for some users, especially long-term kmail and unix users.
But if you want to get windows users to use it, the default has to be
different and, most important, consistent with knode which orients
itself on the "standard" userinterface. one column for each information,
that's what columns are for :) Please think about it at least and if you
could be confident with making it configurable. You could change it for
yourself back the way you're used to as any other one can do. If you
don't beleive me, we could make a poll on dot.kde.org as well :)
> =

> > See above. If we can make it configurable you can switch the column o=
ff
> > but the default should be on. I hope this is ok.
> =

> I use at least sorting by Date and by Date (Order of arrival) together =
with
> threading and I don't see a good reason, why we should make threading
> together with other sorting orders impossible.
Hmm... I didn't say I want to make something impossible. I just want to
make it easier to use :) It's just adding a column as the first where
you press on the label to switch through the sorting order of
threaded/nonthreaded.
> =

> Also what contents should this threading coloums have?
in nsmail there's an icon for each thread. I don't know how other mail
clients handle this but it is probably similar.
> =

> > Agreed, it isn't that big. But to tell the truth, on IRC there are a =
lot
> > of people showing off, and not only women, that have problems
> > configuring kmail for their smtp and pop servers. That's what you wan=
t,
> > quick and easy going. That's what mom and dad need, see ? and this is=

> > why I think that some things on the user interface could be solved
> > directly within the user interface itself.
> =

> Ok, but I guess, they would have the same trouble with any other mail c=
lient.
Yes. But what I wanted to say is that the thing here is that the
usability matters. If even the configuration of this is too hard that
they need a wizard guiding them to it (see the  iconwiz.exe :) then
guess how often one is really interested to look at the configuration
dialog. That's like using a manual when buying a VCR, noone is reading =

it, just plugs in the VCR and shouts if it doesn't work at once.
Usability is targeting to make it work at once withouth the manual - in
this case, the standard settings should offer the user the most when it
comes to usability and eye-candy. for all other cases, configure the
options where you need space. That's why we have 22x22 icons in toolbars
instead of 16x16 by default as well.
> =

> > Well, you could sort by status for example intuitively. The user know=
s
> > he has to click on the label of the column to have the sorting right.=

> > Can it be done already ? If not, then the answer is clear that it's n=
ot
> > easy to find if even I didn't. :)
> =

> At least I like to have as few coloums as possible to not waste space w=
ith
> unimportant thing.
Configurable. You don't need to have them. If I would change anything,
then it would be adding it and make it switchable with the new behaviour
as the default for the mentioned cases where it comes to usability.


> At least I use KMail for getting my work done, and not for playing arou=
nd.
> For the latter applications like kpat are there :-)
Well, that's ok, I'd use it to do my work as well. But that argument is
like why not hang a new picture in your office and instead leave the
wall blank concrete to make you more productive :) It's not making it a
playground. It's making it friendlier. And, not to forget, we aim to
animate kids and women as well to use kmail. Those will be your critics
of the futere, the unix gurus won't complain anyway because they're used
to use something simple. :)


Ralf
> =

> Regards,
> Michael H=E4ckel
> =

> _______________________________________________
> Kmail Developers mailing list
> Kmail@master.kde.org
> http://master.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kmail

-- =

Finally, even I have to admit that being myself was the best thing
that ever could have happened to me. - Le Grand Charmeur

**********************************
Ralf Nolden

The KDevelop Project
http://www.kdevelop.org

nolden@kde.org
rnolden@kdevelop.org
**********************************
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