'Re: Why was the folder Properties dialog split up in 1.8?'

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List:       kmail-devel
Subject:    Re: Why was the folder Properties dialog split up in 1.8?
From:       "Malte S. Stretz" <msquadrat.nospamplease () gmx ! net>
Date:       2005-03-09 22:47:06
Message-ID: 200503092347.10500 () malte ! stretz ! eu ! org
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On Wednesday 09 March 2005 23:19 CET Till Adam wrote:
> On Wednesday 09 March 2005 20:39, Malte S. Stretz wrote:
> >[...]
> > That's of course only my opinion but I now (try to) work with that new
> > dialogs for about a week and still I try to find stuff in the
> > properties dialog which aren't there anymore.
> >
> > If I may comment on some parts of the study:
> > | 1. Current State
> > | The folder properties dialog of Kmail is rather confusing and
> > | suffering from a load of settings. For most users and for most cases,
> > | only essential functions are relevant. The other functions distract
> > | from the essential ones, which leads to a visual clutter and
> > | confusion.
> >
> > That's right.  But by moving the options around, you won't have less
> > options, just move the clutter somewhere else.
>
> Where it is less visible, yes. Exactly the point.

But my point is:  Where is it more visible:  In a dialog which you open once 
every few months or a menu on the main interface which gets longer and 
harder to scan quickly?  And even more important:  Where do you expect the 
option to be if you know it exists:  In a Configuration dialog or behind 
Yet Another Menu Entry in the Folder menu?

In the case of the Expiry settings it took me really long to find it because 
"Expire..." looks like some action to execute, not a setting.  In the end I 
noticed the three dots, the fact that it was in the context menu where 
normally the settings are and it was the only place where it could be 
hidden, but finding those options again took me almost half a week.

> >[...]
> > And if you really need to change some of those options, where do you
> > look first?  Maybe it's just me, but if I look for some kind of
> > settings, I open up a configure dialog.  And for the folders, the
> > Properties dialog is more or less the configure dialog.
> >
> > So instead of moving stuff "out of sight" of the "normal" user (maybe
> > I'm no "normal" user, but on "normal" days I don't look at the
> > Properties dialog very often), you move the stuff *into* sight by
> > cluttering the menus.
>
> Any and all functionality should be availabe via menus, if for no other
> reason than accessibility. (We have not achieved that yet, but we're
> trying.) It's arguable that the mailing list management belongs as a tab
> in the properties dialog, but there is a tradeoff between meeting that
> expectation and avoiding confusion for the majority of users for whom
> that functionality is esoteric and confusing.

Same argument as above applies.

>[...]
> Expiry is a background action. It is usually not triggered explicitely
> and the dialog only applies it on close as a matter of convenience. The
> entry in the Folder menu should also open the dialog, like the one in the
> RMB menu, I guess.

Isn't "Compact Folder" also a background operation?  And why is "Expire..." 
still in the context menu if it's used so rarely?  And shouldn't the one in 
the Folder menu then moved down to the settings part of the menu?  (Yes, I 
know, most of those are rhetoric questions pointing out not-yet-implemented 
stuff.)

Whatever, the expiry settings are still settings and thus (IMO) belong to 
the Properties (or better: Folder Configuration) dialog.

> > The latter should be applied to the mailinglist management, too: 
> > Settings in the Properties dialog but calling the handler from
> > somewhere else, maybe that maintenance dialog I suggested above.
>
> What handler? New Message to Mailinglist?

Whatever you can execute with the "Invoke Handler" button in the mailinglist 
dialog:  Subscribing (a chicken-and-egg problem actually), unsubscribing, 
accessing the archives, etc.

Cheers,
Malte

-- 
[SGT] Simon G. Tatham: "How to Report Bugs Effectively"
      <http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~sgtatham/bugs.html>
[ESR] Eric S. Raymond: "How To Ask Questions The Smart Way"
      <http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html>
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