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List:       kmail-devel
Subject:    Re: RFC: Multiple selection support for the filter dialog
From:       Ingo =?iso-8859-1?q?Kl=F6cker?= <kloecker () kde ! org>
Date:       2004-08-30 21:28:20
Message-ID: 200408302328.22582 () erwin ! ingo-kloecker ! de
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On Monday 30 August 2004 07:26, Don Sanders wrote:
> On Monday 30 August 2004 06:56, Ingo Klöcker wrote:
> > On Sunday 29 August 2004 10:42, Don Sanders wrote:
> > > Finally I take it that at least at this stage, no one objects to
> > > adding a 'for this account' combobox. That's really what I need
> > > for client side imap filtering. As I said the multiple selection
> > > idea is just about making it easier for existing users to
> > > upgrade. I guess unless you have a change of opinion or another
> > > core developer supports the idea of multiple selection and
> > > tri-state checkboxes I'll just drop that idea for now, and
> > > instead focus on getting a 'for this account' combobox working.
>
> Minor point, I meant to write 'for the account' instead of 'for this
> account'.
>
> > A combobox is a very bad idea because that would mean that the user
> > can bind a filter to exactly one IMAP account.
>
> No, I seem to have failed to communicate a fundamental idea clearly.
> The idea of a 'for the account' combobox is to allow per account
> filtering settings for each filter. So if a user has two IMAP
> accounts they could choose to enable a filter for one account and
> turn it off for another. The state of the checkboxes would be updated
> depending on which account is selected in the combobox.

Okay, I understand now. IMO this UI will suck because the user wouldn't 
have an overview about the status of all accounts. Instead he will at 
all times always only see the setting for one of his accounts. I know 
that there are other places in KDE which use this (e.g. KMail's font 
dialog), but I really think this is a very bad user interface.

> At least that's the flexibility I'm seeking. I guess I've been a bit
> imprecise here. Maybe it makes sense to consider each of the 'apply
> this filter to' checkboxes in turn.
>
> For 'to incoming messages' it makes sense to allow this to be turned
> on/off for each incoming (Local, POP, or IMAP) account  for each
> filter.

True.

> For 'to sent messages' it doesn't make sense to allow this to be
> turned on/off for incoming accounts. It might be nice to allow this
> to be turned on/off for each sending (SMTP or sendmail) account.

I don't think it makes much sense to make filters depend on the sending 
account (because I can't imagine why I would want to use this).

> For 'on manual filtering' I guess it makes sense to allow this to be
> toggled on/off for IMAP accounts, and for 'All Local Folders'.

Hmm, I'm not sure about this one.

> I guess rather than having a single 'for this account' combobox an
> alternative would be to have one combobox for each of the 'apply this
> filter to' checkboxes, but that would take up more space than a
> single checkbox.

We'd obviously have to put the more advanced stuff into another tab. 
Normal users should be able to completely ignore the advanced settings 
and get normal behavior (i.e. all filters are active regardless of the 
account).

> > b) Add a checkbox (apply to all accounts) and some other widget for
> > individual selection.
>
> Yes, that's the kind of solution I'm after. Maybe a single 'apply to
> all accounts' checkbox makes sense. That may well be sufficient to
> cover all the common cases.
>
> I think it makes sense to consider using a single combobox as the
> 'other widget'. This combobox could list all known accounts (sending,
> receiving ) and also list an 'All Local Folders' item.
>
> This combobox would only be enabled when the 'apply to all accounts'
> checkbox is turned off. It could be labeled something like 'for the
> account'. If for example the user selects an IMAP account in this
> combobox then the 'to sent messages' checkbox could be disabled,
> leaving the other checkboxes enabled.
>
> > One really though problem is the addition of new IMAP accounts.
> > What should happen? Should all filters work for the new account?
> > Should only filters which are associated with at least one IMAP
> > account be associated with the account?
>
> I would say no filters should be applied to the new account. I think
> that would be the behavior most users would expect.

At least I would expect the opposite, i.e. that all filters are by 
default active for the new account. I would be really pissed if I had 
to enable all filters for the new account each time I created a new 
account. The fact that your and my expectation differ clearly shows 
that there is no "correct" solution for this.

> None of the 'file in folder' filter actions could reference folders
> on the new account, instead they could only reference local folders
> and remote folders on other accounts. So applying existing filters
> automatically to the new account could surprise the user by
> unexpectedly moving mail out of their new account into some other
> arbitrary account.

I don't think so.

> > Hmm, I think the only sensible option is to add a checkbox "Also
> > apply on IMAP folders".
> >
> > I'm not really lucky with any of the solutions. Do we actually need
> > such an option? What's wrong with simply using the value of the
> > "Apply on incoming mail" setting? After all, new IMAP messages are
> > incoming mail.
>
> I think people who use filters for POP accounts but rely on server
> side filtering for IMAP accounts aren't going to find that
> acceptable, (because clearly they want filters to be applied to mail
> from their POP accounts but not their IMAP accounts). I'm such a
> person.

True.

> So basically I don't think this would be flexible enough.

Agreed.

> How about a 'Apply to all accounts' checkbox with a complementary
> 'for the account' combobox. Please also reconsider your objection to
> allowing multiple selection and tri-state checkboxes, unless you have
> some other suggestion for how to allow the user to easily activate
> multiple filters for a single account.

I'm against the combobox solution. I favor an advanced tab with

Apply on incoming messages:
[ ] Apply for all accounts
[ ] Apply only for
   [ ] Receiving Account 1
   [ ] Receiving Account 2
   ...

Apply on outgoing messages:
[ ] Apply for all accounts
[ ] Apply only for
   [ ] Sending Account 1
   ...

Apply on manual filtering:
[ ] Apply on all messages
[ ] Apply only for
   [ ] Message in local folders
   [ ] Message on IMAP Account 1
   ...

In all cases the default should be "Apply (on|for) all (accounts|
folders)".

The pros of this solution are:
a) The complexity is hidden from the normal user.
b) The UI is easy to use and doesn't hide any information.

One con:
a) Since there might be many accounts the detailed account selections 
have to be put into some scrollview, i.e. a QListBox variant with 
checkboxes before each entry.

Regards,
Ingo

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