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List:       kfm-devel
Subject:    Using parts of Mozilla in KDE (fwd)
From:       Marko Gronroos <magi () utu ! fi>
Date:       1999-11-22 16:27:29
[Download RAW message or body]

[I first crossposted this to kde-licensing@kde.org, but put the kfm-devel
address wrongly, so you might want to crosspost any followups to the licensing
list too - I'm not on the lists, and don't really want to subscribe them, so
I'm sorry about the small mess]

There was some discussion on this list (kde-kfm-devel) in summer about using
parts of Mozilla in KDE. Someone raised questions about the compability of GPL
and NPL lisences. I asked about that from the Mozilla licensing newsgroup (at
news.mozilla.org newsserver), and received the following very informative
answer (quoted in full):

-----------------
Subject: Re: Using Mozilla modules in KDE
Date: Mon, 22 Nov 1999 01:38:10 -0800
From: Daniel Veditz <dveditz@netscape.com>
Organization: Netscape Communication Corporation
Newsgroups: netscape.public.mozilla.license

Disclaimer: IANAL and I'm speaking only as a mozilla hacker and not for
Netscape.

Marko Grönroos wrote:
> 
> This may be an unnecessary question, but I'll ask anyways.
>   There has been some discussion in KDE mailing lists about using
> Mozilla's modules such as NGLayout or JavaScript in KDE development. But
> people have expressed concerns about the compability of the licenses.
>   I think KDE is fully GPL, except for the Qt library. But linking
> Mozilla against non-GPL libraries can't be a problem, I think, as it
> compiles also with certain Windows compilers...
>   The actual question therefore is: is it ok to rip off smaller modules
> from Mozilla, and use them inside a GPLed software?

I assume you're not meaning "rip off" in the slang sense of "steal", but
rather from your question that you are trying to respect licenses...

You're in luck with JavaScript because that part of mozilla is
dual-licensed with the GPL. There is no conflict. Unfortunately the rest
of mozilla is not dual-licensed (the JS part is an experiment).

The Mozilla license is pretty open to linking to other code, free or
not, but it appears that from the GPL perspective our license adds
"addition restrictions" which is prohibited by the GPL, and thus the two
cannot be combined.

RMS's statement:  http://www.fsf.org/philosophy/netscape-npl.html
Netscape's opinion: http://www.mozilla.org/MPL/FAQ.html#18

>   And also, is it ok to link GPLed programs against Mozilla libraries?
>   Or are there any other possible difficulties?

I think the GPL restrictions apply to a complete "larger work", and that
RMS has frowned even on things linked dynamically. Linux has taken a
more pragmatic approach and doesn't consider libraries linked
dynamically (like drivers) to have to be covered under GPL-compatible
terms. Since this issue hasn't been tested in court take your pick as to
whether you think dynamically loaded libraries fall under the "need to
be GPL compatible" camp.

I should note that one reason Netscape's lawyers were scared to death of
using the GPL for mozilla was the difference between how they
interpreted the licenses and how it was obeyed in practice -- they
thought that all the examples of people appearing to violate the license
(in their opinion) in ways thought benign by the community would lead a
judge to throw it out, leaving our code completely unprotected.

It's possible that if the dual-license experiment on JS is seen as
having gone well that Netscape/AOL might extend it more code, though
they might be waiting until we've shipped a stable beta and solidified
the API's to minimize the risk of code-forks. It wouldn't hurt to ask.
Start with shaver@mozilla.org -- he's the mozilla.org evangelist and was
a pro-GPL force in the dual-licensing of the JS engine. Embedding Gecko
in KDE would be a pretty big carrot in terms of more eyes and developers
on the code.

-Dan Veditz
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

You might want to post any comments to Veditz's article also to the newsgroup.

My comments:
  This looks bad with regards to most parts of Mozilla, except maybe for the
JavaScript. I took a look at the JS code, and it really contains the following
headers:
 [...NPL stuff...]
 23  * Alternatively, the contents of this file may be used under the
 24  * terms of the GNU Public License (the "GPL"), in which case the
 25  * provisions of the GPL are applicable instead of those above.
 26  * If you wish to allow use of your version of this file only
 27  * under the terms of the GPL and not to allow others to use your
 28  * version of this file under the NPL, indicate your decision by
 29  * deleting the provisions above and replace them with the notice
 30  * and other provisions required by the GPL.  If you do not delete
 31  * the provisions above, a recipient may use your version of this
 32  * file under either the NPL or the GPL.
 33  */

Thus it seems that using the JS module would be totally safe with regards to
the licenses, although then the Mozilla people wouldn't be able to use any
changes you make to it. *sigh* But then, I suppose you can always isolate any
changes to the JS library by making them as NPL/GPL double license, and then
(with a small script perhaps) extracting a version of the library that is pure
GPL, and including that with your actual software. (A bit complex, yes)

I suppose that using other Mozilla components through CORBA (or whatever)
would be more license-safe, although possibly not so efficient. I'm not
familiar with the component models of Mozilla (XPCOM?) and KDE (KOM?), but I
suppose they are currently incompatible and would require some sort of
wrapper/converter?
  I am not a KDE core developer, and thus not aware of your needs and
preferences, but having taken a look at the Mozilla's vast pile of code, I see
it as a great source of reusable, although perhaps slightly bloated
components. And systematic reuse and improving of that code could also give
support for the Mozilla project.

-- Marko Grönroos, magi@iki.fi (http://www.iki.fi/magi/)
-- Paradoxes are the source of truth and the end of wisdom

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