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List:       kfm-devel
Subject:    Re: Kfm and Konqueror contra Netscape
From:       Dawit Alemayehu <adawit () earthlink ! net>
Date:       1999-10-26 2:48:38
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On Mon, 25 Oct 1999, Calvin Ostrum wrote:
> Earlier I wrote that I find kfm (kde 1.1.2) to be far 
> more pleasant to use as a browser than Netscape.  
> However, there are some shortcomings that force me to 
> drop back into Netscape occasionally and this is
> very discouraging.
> 
> The thing that is disturbing me most now is that
> quite often I cannot seem to connect to pages that
> I should be able to.  For example, when downloading
> packages from RedHat, the first click invariably tells
> me I cannot access the file, and then the second click
> invariably works (so it isn't a matter of the ftp site
> being too crowded or something).

This is a known problem in kfm.  kfm, in terms of error message to the user,
does not distinguish between an ftp server reaching its maximum limit and being
unaccessible.  This is because some ftp sites send text messages back when
they reach capacity instead of redirecting you to an HTML error page.  kfm did
not parse the text message to display it nicely as a web page like netscape
does.  I do not know if this has yet been changed in konqueror ( kioslave ). 
David, has this changed yet ??

> As another example, the NY Times either stores or 
> access my authorization  information correctly.  After
> I have given my userid and password it looks at some
> pages, but not all of them.  "File does not exist or access
> denied" it says. This is very discouraging.

This is another known problem/bug in kfm.  The problem is the result of cookies
and redirection.  Something is breaking badly when cookies and redirection are
involved.  kfm also does not support Javascript ; so anysite that uses
Javascript to generate authentication ( for example, I think the login to
alta vista personal site does that ).  Furthermore, there is no SSL support in
kfm.  This is gradually changing in konqueror.  As an example, although not
yet function (could be wrong) the http protocol has a preliminary support for
SSL v2 & 3.  More protocols are also being added, but they all need people to
work on them.

> Does anyone know if this has been fixed or if it
> will be fixed in konqueror.  Or how difficult it
> would be to fix it in kfm and if it is worth the
> trouble?

As I already said IMHO it is not worth the trouble trying to fix it in kfm since
it is dead (R.I.P).  konqueror is where all the modifications should be done.  I
have not started haking on konqueror yet because I am working on something
else (KURL).  But I am sure someone will work on these problems in kfm and
they will be fixed in time.  Hey if you need/want to see these features and
have the ability to contribute please feel free to jump in and help out.  I am
sure no one will mind another helping hand.

> As a first investigation, without looking at the
> source at all, I see that netscape saves cookies
> for the NY times which appear to be the userid
> and password, but kfm does not appear to save
> them.  I suppose that this could have a lot to do with it
> (although it shouldn't have to save the cookies in
> the cookies file in order to use them correctly during
> the session, and it seems to use them for at least some
> pages).  It also appears that the site address for pages
> that cannot be visited are not of the form www.nytimes.com
> but rather something like search.nytimes or www10.nytimes.com.
> Perhaps the authorization is not being applied correctly
> for these related URL's.   It seems that this might
> be something rather easy to fix.  Should I look into
> it, or has someone already done so, or what, I wonder?

Do not be fooled.  It is not as easy to fix as it seems.  You might
want to take a shot at it though.  However, for my own personal experience, I
suggest you effort would be well spent if you on KDE 2.0 instead.  I have spent
many hours studying the problem and was only able to fix one redirection
problem ( redirection occuring before all the cookies were set).  This was the
problem with loging into Deja.com.  BTW, there are multiple issues involved here
it is not just one thing that is wrong.  Ummm.... perhaps I could be
wrong here as one little thing could be cause of all the cookie problems.
Anyway,  I did not get anywhere with the others and did not feel like spending
time on it since most of it was either being updated or re-written for KDE 2.0.

> Or maybe I just have kfm confirgued incorrectly! It
> appears to be saving some cookies from nytimes.com
> correctly, and using them, so that doesn't appear to 
> be the problem.

It is always possible one can incorrectly configure kfm, but there indeed is a
known problem with cookies, at least with cookies and redirection.  There are
times also where cookies are not saved at all.  I can give the Yahoo site login
as an example.  Anyway,  I am working

> Another annoying thing is that https pages cannot be
> dealt with.  Obviously this is a bigger issue, requiring
> the employment of OpenSSL or something similar, so I won't
> expect this in kfm.  But will it be coming in konqueror?

See above ....

> For normal use of browsers, I think these two issues
> are far more important than java and javascript support.

All of them are important, but like I said someone needs to work on them.  If
you are able to do so, please contribute.  The more people work on it the
quicker it gets those features.  I personally want SSL support so I can
completely drop Windows.  Hence,  I will be helping with that.  So if you want
to see something implemented or fixed and have the ability, please dive in and
helpout.

Regards,
Dawit A.

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