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List: kfm-devel
Subject: Re: Konqueror web browser works with MSN.com
From: Vadim Plessky <lucy-ples () mtu-net ! ru>
Date: 2001-10-28 22:29:11
[Download RAW message or body]
On Sunday 28 October 2001 14:24, Kevin Reichard wrote:
| When did you do this? I just tried msn.com with Netscape 4.7 and 6.1
| (Linux and Windows), Amaya (Windows and Linux), Mozilla (Windows and
| Linux), and Opera (Windows and Linux) identifying itself as Mozilla 5.0,
| 4.7, IE, and Opera, and in each case the page loaded correctly.
|
Hello Kevin!
may I ask you to clarify what do you mean under "When did you do this?" ?
If you mean, screenshots for Konqueror and Opera blocked on MSN.com - than it
was 26.10.2001, around 20:30 local time (Moscow, Russia, +4 hours to
London)
I tried msn.com once more now, after receiving your mail.
Indeed, Opera is not blocked anymore. Konqueror was in MS IE 5.0 faking mode.
http://htmltests.newmail.ru/microsoft/msn_com-Oct29-Konq22.png
http://htmltests.newmail.ru/microsoft/msn_com-Oct29-Opera5.png
But http://photos.msn.com is still not fixed.
Notice ASP code on right side of Opera screenshot. This code was ignored by
Konqueror (therefor, nothing was displayed)
http://htmltests.newmail.ru/microsoft/photos_msn_com-Oct29-Opera5i.png
http://htmltests.newmail.ru/microsoft/photos_msn_com-Oct29-Konq22i.png
Well, under "not fixed" I mean that you are not blocked, but there is a
terrible error in server-side scripts, on Microsoft side.
Hope this answers your question.
If you have more questions, please do not hesitate to ask me
Best Regards,
Vadim
| --Kevin
|
| Vadim Plessky wrote:
| > Attn: Kevin Reichard, other BrowserWatch editors
| >
| > Dear Mr. Reichard,
| >
| > I have read your article
| > Microsoft to non-MS Browsers: Access Not Denied
| > http://browserwatch.internet.com/news/stories2001/news-20011026-1.html
| > with a great pleasure, thanks a lot for bringing out all issues with
| > MSN.com site.
| >
| > I'd like also to make important addition to this part:
| > - - - - - -
| > Currently, users of non-Microsoft Web browsers are denied access to MSN
| > and told that they need to use Microsoft Internet Explorer in order to
| > access MSN. In response to queries from several readers, we tested the
| > Amaya, Netscape, Mozilla, and Opera browsers against MSN and received
| > the following message:
| >
| > <quote>
| > If you are seeing this page, we have detected that the browser that you
| > are using will not render MSN.com correctly. Additionally, you'll see
| > the most advanced functionality of MSN.com only with the latest version
| > of Microsoft Internet Explorer or MSN Explorer. If you wish to visit
| > MSN.com, please select the appropriate download link below.
| > </quote>
| >
| > Following this message were links to Microsoft IE download sites.
| >
| > Only Netscape Navigator 4.7 loaded the MSN home page, albeit with
| > errors that misplaced graphics and caused the left navigation bar to be
| > misaligned. - - - - - -
| >
| > I have tested this page (www.msn.com) with Konqueror web browser
| > [http://www.konqueror.org], part of KDE project [http://www.kde.org],
| > and while after initial attempt I got the same "upgrade" page in
| > Konqueror [If you are seeing this page...] which you have seen in Opera
| > and Mozilla, tweaking default userAgent string to MS IE 5.0/Win95
| > (while running Linux) did the trick.
| > I was able to get into http://www.msn.com, and get it
| > displayed/rendered correctly.
| >
| > >From technical point of view, Konqueror is latest-generation web
| > > browser/file
| >
| > manager, supporting all most important web standards, like HTML 4.01,
| > XHTML 1.0, XML, CSS1, CSS2 (partially), DOM1, DOM2 (partially),
| > JavaScript, ECMAscript, HTTP 1.1, PNG, MNG.
| > Konqueror also support Unicode, as defined by Unicode Consortium, as
| > well as many other different encodings.
| > At a moment, Konqueror runs on a variety of different Linux/UNIX
| > platforms, from i586 Linux up to Sun Solaris and IBM mainframes running
| > Linux. More information is available at http://www.konqueror.org
| >
| > You can check screenshots how actually MSN.com look like in Konqueror:
| > http://htmltests.newmail.ru/microsoft/msn_com-Oct28-Konq22-fake-as-MSIE
| >-i.png There is a font-size problem on that screenshot, but it can be
| > corrected easily by using Increase Font buttons in Konq.
| > Screenshot2:
| > http://htmltests.newmail.ru/microsoft/msn_com-Oct28-Konq22-fake-as-MSIE
| >-font-increased-i.png
| >
| > "fonts too small" problem is not specific to MSN.com but pretty well
| > known and present on all microsoft.com sites.
| > You will hardly notice this problem using Windows (either MS IE or
| > Netscape / Mozilla or Opera, as all they use Windows' system libraries
| > for font handling) but it' very visible when you use Linux desktop or
| > Macintosh. Problem is that all Microsoft pages are "tuned" to MS IE
| > default CSS stylesheet, which is terribly broken in respect of DPI
| > settings. I can provide you more information about dpi-handling issues
| > on Linux [ differences with Windows, similarities with Mac] upon your
| > request. Anyway, as I mentioned above, this can be adjusted for better
| > reading pleasure by increasing font size (in Konqueror settings)
| >
| > Concerning fact of blocking Opera and Mozilla broswers on msn.com,
| > I can add that inspecting msn.com html code, I found following URL:
| > http://arc1.msn.com/ADSAdClient31.dll?GetAd?PG=PROSHP?SC=D1
| > saved as part of http://eshop.msn.com/ page, I attach
| > "ADSAdClient31.htm" file where I extracted it from
| > ----------
| > <%var g_strBrowserAgent = new
| > String(Request.ServerVariables("HTTP_USER_AGENT"));var
| > g_blnBrowserAgentMac = g_strBrowserAgent.match(/Mac?/);var
| > g_blnBrowserAgentIE =
| > g_strBrowserAgent.match(/compatible; MSIE?/);if(!g_blnBrowserAgentIE ||
| > g_blnBrowserAgentMac){Response.Write('<style>.sbGradient{background-col
| >or:#333366;position:absolute; left:0; top:0; z-index:2; width:9px;
| > height:600px; filter:Alpha( Opacity=100, FinishOpacity=0, Style=1,
| > StartX=0, FinishX=10, StartY=0, FinishY=0)} ');}%>
| >
| > As you can see, there is a check for "compatible; MSIE" and "Mac"
| > strings in HTTP_USER_AGENT request, with some extra code added for
| > those browsers. So, in fact I am not surprised by "blocking effect"
| >
| > I have checked several pages on msn.com - none of them is validates by
| > http://validator.w3.org as "valid HTML" or "Valid XHTML"
| > So, claims by Microsoft about "standards conformance" and "requirement
| > for latest browser version supporting W3C standards" are really false
| > and misleading.
| > You can't speak about "bad rendering " or "good rendering" when page
| > doesn't validate at all.
| >
| > I hope you will find this information usefull, and you can include all
| > this info in update to this article.
| > Therefor, I grant you full rights to reprint/quote this mail or all
| > facts mentioned in this mail.
| >
| > I am cc'ing Konqueror-Development mailing list, if you have further
| > questions about Konqueror (or subject: msn.com rendering by Konqueror)
| > please free to ask Konqueror's developers directly.
| > You will have granted response, besides, your comments on subject will
| > be highly appreciated.
| > --
| > Sincerly Yours,
| >
| > Vadim Plessky
| > http://kde2.newmail.ru (English)
| > 33 Window Decorations and 6 Widget Styles for KDE
| > http://kde2.newmail.ru/kde_themes.html
| > KDE mini-Themes
| > http://kde2.newmail.ru/themes/
| >
| >
| > -----------------------------------------------------------------------
| >- Name: ADSAdClient31.htm
| > ADSAdClient31.htm Type: Hypertext Markup Language (text/html)
| > Encoding: base64
--
Vadim Plessky
http://kde2.newmail.ru (English)
33 Window Decorations and 6 Widget Styles for KDE
http://kde2.newmail.ru/kde_themes.html
KDE mini-Themes
http://kde2.newmail.ru/themes/
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