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List:       kdepim-users
Subject:    Re: [kdepim-users] kontact and kde4
From:       Robert Smits <bob () rsmits ! ca>
Date:       2008-01-12 9:28:20
Message-ID: 200801120128.20674.bob () rsmits ! ca
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On January 11, 2008 05:25:37 pm Douglas Almquist wrote:
> On Friday 11 January 2008 1:26:00 pm Robert Smits wrote:
> > On January 11, 2008 12:01:48 pm Doug Almquist wrote:
> > >  ______________________________________________________________________
> > > I don't know what FUD is and I think I've been quite fair and open
> > > about my investigations regarding these products.
> >
> > It's pretty unbelievable to claim you don't know what FUD is, given the
> > widespread use of the term on the Internet. FUD is generally a strategic
> > attempt to influence public perception by disseminating negative (and
> > vague) information.
>
> Hmmm I've read about such conspiracies among US political circles and some
> CEO's pretending to be others on-line spreading such misinformation.  I
> assure you I'm just a guy who thought... who expected a 2006 Palm device to
> work with Kpilot in 2008.  Clearly my expectations are not appropriate for
> the KDE platform.  This is my fault not yours.  I will make the necessary
> adjustments.

Good. You could make a start then. 

Palm support under Linux is not like support for a native linux software, like 
Open Office, for example. First, Palms run on proprietary software, not open 
source, so those who want to develop ways of allowing Linux programs to 
interact with them have to do a lot of extra work just figuring out what 
they're doing. In many ways it's very similar to running Windows programs 
under Wine or Crossover Linux. Not every things works all the time and you 
need to occasionally do some experiementing to make it work. 


> One cannot complain much to the programmer since there's only one.  But if
> the OpenSource model is going to succeed there has to be some
> administrative direction given to products and packages based on business
> needs.  Should a business or a consumer choose the KDE platform if they've
> chosen to resource only a single programmer towards supporting a key
> package in a white-hot market space? [Smartphones / converged mobile
> telecom devices]  How can the answer be anything but No?

Your problem is that you keep seeing "products" that are "marketed" 
to "consumers". And that you see Palm support as a "key" package. 
Palm support is important only for a very small percentage of Linux users. The 
only stats I saw were something like 1-2 %. It is important to me because I 
need to use my Tungsten E2 (Still current and working), but a great many 
Linux users don't use PDAs at all. (The same is probably true for the vast 
majority of computer users of every type, including Windows.) 

> > Secondly, this is open source software, NOT a "product". It's produced
> > largely by volunteers and doesn't cost you a nickel. And it's not like
> > Palm has ever been helpful to those of us running PDAs and Linux. When
> > you pop up with a new PDA model, which uses software much different from
> > its immediate predecessor product, you shouldn't be surprised if it takes
> > a while for volunteers to get access to one, and create software for it.
>
> I'm truly ignorant of what support Palm gives the community 

As far as I can see Palm gives Linux users exactly zero support. 

> and you're 
> right, I would expect a delay of some kind for support for new products.  I
> sympathize with your plight...  you don't have anywhere near the support
> required to succeed in this marketspace.

More FUD. And it's not a "marketspace".

> > All you ever had to do was search on the term Kpilot, and go to the
> > Kpilot website, where you can find the hardware section, as below.
> > http://cvs.codeyard.net/kpilot/hardware.php
>
> I'm unaware of that site 

Well, if you had done even one Google search on KPilot, you'd have found it in 
the first page of results. 

> and am puzzled why the single programmer 
> responsible for this package wouldn't simply start the conversation with
> "I'm not supporting that hardware" or "we have no reports that the 700p
> will work with kpilot."   

Well, there are more programmers than one, but HE WAS TRYING TO HELP YOU MAKE 
IT WORK!

> Generally these mailing lists are the best place 
> for up-2-date information.  Wouldn't it be helpful if the Kpilot software
> itself identified the model and informed the user of the likelihood of
> successful function.  I suspect this feature would save hundreds of hours
> of support work on products that are not supposed to work in the first
> place.

Fine. Write the necessary software and submit it, I'm sure the developers 
would be glad of any assistance.

But seriously, Palm keeps changing their equipment in ways that are not 
obvious. A lot of times a little extra work can get things going, even though 
having the guys writing software diverted from actually writing it.

> > You may indeed be a real user with a real problem. To people who are
> > basically here to help others, however, you give the impression of acting
> > like both ungrateful brat and a Microsoft Troll. If you're not, please
> > reconsider your petulance.
>
> Your name calling is not helpful to anyone.  Everyone is an ungrateful brat
> who comes with anything but praise and/or money. 

Someone calls you on your attitude and it becomes name-callng? It's your chip 
on the shoulder attitude that irritates. And your view that everything is 
a "product" in a "marketspace".

> We or you have a serious 
> problem here... you're radically underresourced and you spend time in
> long-winded arguments when a quick "We don't support your hardware" should
> have sufficed.  

Sorry but you're just wrong. This is exactly my second post on the subject, I 
haven't made any long winded arguments, and I'm so glad Kmail has good kill 
files. 

> As you so aptly pointed out with a link to codeyard.net, in 
> OpenSource initiatives information isn't centralized but spread out over
> what appears to be unrelated web sites.  The uninitiated (non-programmer)
> shouldn't be expected to navigate to exactly the needed information.  

I'm a non-programmer, and I found it just fine. Why should you expect not to 
even bother to do an elementary Google search? 

> This 
> is what email list servers are supposed to be for.  This is why subject
> matter experts are so valuable to the community.  I can only assume you
> enjoy this pompous pose of yours.  What's the win in it for you, I wonder?

Well, unlike you, I value the fact that I can use my Tungsten E2 with my Linux 
computers. I'm glad that there are people in the Linux community to help me 
free myself from proprietary software, and I try to be as helpful as possible 
to those having problems. 

You, on the other hand, just expect all the problems to be fixed for you, and 
can't even be bothered to do any preliminary research of your own to 
determine whether your Trio was likely to work in the first place. 

I wish, for example, that my glucometer was supported under Linux. It's not, 
and the number of diabetics using my particular kind of glucometer is low 
enough it's not likely to be supported until Microsoft's share drops to 50%. 
So I expect that, and don't slag KDE or Linux because they're concentrating 
on software a lot more people will use. 

 

-- 
Bob Smits bob@rsmits.ca 

A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text.
Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?
A: Top-posting.
Q: What is the most annoying thing on usenet and in e-mail? 
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