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List:       kdepim-users
Subject:    Re: [kdepim-users] kontact and kde4
From:       "Roy J. Tellason" <rtellason () verizon ! net>
Date:       2008-01-12 4:19:15
Message-ID: 200801112319.16109.rtellason () verizon ! net
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On Friday 11 January 2008 20:25, Douglas Almquist wrote:
(Snip)
> Given the tone of this thread I assume this will be received as criticism
> by the programmers here.

That seems to be the way of it,  in my experience as well.

> I really wish someone will consider what the performance of the Open Source
> programming community is doing to the competition (Microsoft): wonderful
> things. 

Indeed.

> One cannot complain much to the programmer since there's only one.  But if
> the OpenSource model is going to succeed there has to be some
> administrative direction given to products and packages based on business
> needs.

Or at the very least some user input into the way things are going,  rather 
than things just happening based on decisions made elsewhere by folks I've 
never heard of until after things get brought up in here.

> Should a business or a consumer choose the KDE platform if they've 
> chosen to resource only a single programmer towards supporting a key
> package in a white-hot market space? [Smartphones / converged mobile
> telecom devices]  How can the answer be anything but No?

In my own case,  it's kmail I have issues with.  A program that I've been 
using for some *years* now,  and which has changed with successive OS 
upgrades until I find it significantly less usable than I have all along.

> > Secondly, this is open source software, NOT a "product". It's produced
> > largely by volunteers and doesn't cost you a nickel.

What I'm spending on this stuff is _my time_,  which is an irreplaceable 
resource.  I'd rather not waste it if at all possible.  And yet this version 
of the software does exactly that,  way too often,  and the "feature" that's 
causing it is something I didn't want and which there doesn't,  as far as 
I've been able to determine,  seem to be any way to disable it.

> > And it's not like Palm has ever been helpful to those of us running PDAs
> > and Linux. When you pop up with a new PDA model, which uses software much
> > different from its immediate predecessor product, you shouldn't be
> > surprised if it takes a while for volunteers to get access to one, and
> > create software for it. 
>
> I'm truly ignorant of what support Palm gives the community and you're
> right, I would expect a delay of some kind for support for new products.  I
> sympathize with your plight...  you don't have anywhere near the support
> required to succeed in this marketspace.

"Marketplace" as you're using it here I would tend to assume meaning a 
community of users,  as opposed to the more business-oriented use of the term 
some interpretations might assume.

> > All you ever had to do was search on the term Kpilot, and go to the
> > Kpilot website, where you can find the hardware section, as below.
> > http://cvs.codeyard.net/kpilot/hardware.php
>
> I'm unaware of that site and am puzzled why the single programmer
> responsible for this package wouldn't simply start the conversation with
> "I'm not supporting that hardware" or "we have no reports that the 700p
> will work with kpilot."   Generally these mailing lists are the best place
> for up-2-date information.

I started out with the help files that came with the software (which are 
incomplete at times and often not up-to-date with current versions of the 
software either),  went through assorted web sites,  to the kde mailing list, 
and then ended up here,  where when I post on my particular issues instead of 
any pointers toward helping out I'm told I should be grateful for all the 
hard work some folks are doing.

I'm looking in the source tree and the revision history,  which might tell me 
when I could expect some of the features that I most object to were put in,  
is _several years_ out of date.  I ask around in here,  and after a couple of 
attempts finally get a pointer to a web site that's supposed to have more 
current info on it -- only what it turns out is that hte info on the web site 
is the same as what I already have on hand with a not-particularly-current 
distro's source files.  No help at all,  as the way the file is put together 
is all entirely too cryptic and of no apparent use to me whatsoever.

> Wouldn't it be helpful if the Kpilot software itself identified the model
> and informed the user of the likelihood of successful function.  I suspect
> this feature would save hundreds of hours of support work on products that
> are not supposed to work in the first place.

Wouldn't it also be helpful if,  when such new features as the kmail program 
automatically compacting all folders are added,  the end user had the option 
to disable it?  I have a lot of archival folders on this setup,  which are 
only added to,  and which *never* have any deletions done on them,  yet they 
are continually compacted by the software.  A process that,  among other 
things,  _WASTES MY TIME_,  because when it gets going the composer window 
that I'm _trying_ to use doesn't respond to what I'm doing at all,  until 
it's done.  Whose machine is this,  anyway?  Who is it that this software is 
supposed to be here for,  if not the user at the keyboard?

There are other changes,  which involve taking configuration options that were 
formerly all in one place,  and scattering them around to several different 
places,  some of which I didn't discover until quite some time after I'd been 
using this version of the software.  I do NOT consider this an improvement,  
and yet I'm told that these changes were implemented according to 
some "usability people",  folks that I've never heard of before,  nor since,  
nor has there been any communication there -- nobody asked me if I'd be okay 
with these changes,  nor have I ever been given the opportunity to pass my 
opinion along.

> > You may indeed be a real user with a real problem. To people who are
> > basically here to help others, however, you give the impression of acting
> > like both ungrateful brat and a Microsoft Troll. If you're not, please
> > reconsider your petulance.
>
> Your name calling is not helpful to anyone.  Everyone is an ungrateful brat
> who comes with anything but praise and/or money.   We or you have a serious
> problem here... you're radically underresourced and you spend time in
> long-winded arguments when a quick "We don't support your hardware" should
> have sufficed.  As you so aptly pointed out with a link to codeyard.net, in
> OpenSource initiatives information isn't centralized but spread out over
> what appears to be unrelated web sites.  The uninitiated (non-programmer)
> shouldn't be expected to navigate to exactly the needed information.  This
> is what email list servers are supposed to be for.

You mean like this list is supposed to be here to support these products?

> This is why subject matter experts are so valuable to the community.  I can
> only assume you enjoy this pompous pose of yours.  What's the win in it for
> you, I wonder? 

I'll make one final point here.  I've asked not once,  but several times now,  
what might be involved,  what sorts of hassles I'm likely to run into,  if I 
choose to revert to an earlier version of the software,  one that still works 
the way I want it to.  I've yet to see an answer.

I suppose that which version that turns out to be isn't going to be answered 
either.

And I further suppose that I won't get anywhere except on my own initiative,  
spending way more time on what should be a simple issue than I can afford,  
because I have to install what versions I have on hand until I get to where I 
want to be with this,  or spend endless hours poking around in the source 
code,  and compile the damn thing myself.

Support?  Not bloody apparent,  to me.

And I'm supposed to appreciate this?  I'm supposed to be grateful for the 
product?

I may just see what all else is out there,  and not bother with it altogether,  
if it comes down to that.

There's little bloody support here!

-- 
Member of the toughest, meanest, deadliest, most unrelenting -- and
ablest -- form of life in this section of space,  a critter that can
be killed but can't be tamed.  --Robert A. Heinlein, "The Puppet Masters"
-
Information is more dangerous than cannon to a society ruled by lies. --James 
M Dakin
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