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List:       kdepim-users
Subject:    Re: [kdepim-users] kmail expiry
From:       Anne Wilson <cannewilson () tiscali ! co ! uk>
Date:       2007-05-19 18:12:09
Message-ID: 200705191912.09602.cannewilson () tiscali ! co ! uk
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On Saturday 19 May 2007, Ross Boylan wrote:
> On Saturday 19 May 2007 09:00, Anne Wilson wrote:
> > On Saturday 19 May 2007, Ross Boylan wrote:
> > > I haven't set any expiry options.  Is there any risk kmail will delete
> > > my mail?  I don't want it to.
>
> ....
>
> > > Apparently some people think expiry is a useful feature.  From my
> > > perspective it is something that I would never expect an email client
> > > to do, and it is very dangerous.  So please be careful! I.e., don't
> > > make it the default, and do let people know what they're doing if they
> > > turn it on.
> > >
> > > kmail about says 1.9.5, from Debian package kmail 3.5.5.dfsg.1-6.
> >
> > When the 'exclude important messages from expiry' option came in, I
> > thought it was a gift from God :-)  Anything that I want to keep
> > long-term gets an Important flag on it.  Some folders have no expiry set,
> > and contain messages from 2002 onwards.  Others are set at anything
> > between 7 days and 90 days. Because you can set the option
> > folder-by-folder, you can make sure that each folder does exactly what
> > *you* want it to do.
> >
> > This is on a system using kmail 1.9.6  (recently 1.9.5) locally and mail
> > kept on a dovecot imap server.  I don't use disconnected imap.  Whatever
> > has caused problems for others, I can say unequivocally that expiry has
> > caused me no problems whatsoever.
> >
> > As to your last sentence, it has never been on by default, at least not
> > on any system I've used.  If you turn it on for a folder you can even
> > choose whether to delete completely or move to another folder.  If you
> > read the options carefully when setting it up you have nothing to fear.
> >
> > Anne
>
> Phew!  I'm glad to hear it.
>
> I haven't read any of the options because the menu choice, "expire", is a
> verb, and I don't want to do that (I know the ... means it will open up a
> dialogue).  It sounds as if selecting that item does several things: it
> lets you set the expiry options; it triggers an expiry; and it starts
> automatic expiries working.  That might be a bit too much at once.  For
> example, what if someone wanted to change the options without triggering an
> expiry, or do a manual only run.
>
> Of course, since I haven't dared touch it, I don't know what it does:)
>
> I think the option currently called
> Exclude important messages from expiry
> would be slightly clearer if it said
> Never expire important messages.
> The latter wording doesn't give the impression that expiry is going on as
> strongly, though I'm afraid it sill gives that impression.
>
> While I'm talking about possible misunderstandings, I'm accustomed to
> expiry being relevant in newsgroups, and thought perhaps the option only
> affected them or things like them (RSS?--I don't know if kmail handles that
> either, but certainly kmail may be accessing newsgroups via the IMAP
> server).
>
> Following Adriaan's suggestion, here is some possible text to display for
> that item if you hover over it (that's a tooltip, right?) or click the ?
> icon and then click it (is that a whatsit?):
> "If this option is on (the default), expiration will never delete messages
> flagged as important.  Expiration is off by default, but can be enabled on
> a per-folder basis from the folder context menu.  Warning: messages marked
> ToDo but not important will still be expired, as will non-flagged messages
> in the same thread as the important ones."
> The warning can be changed as the semantics change.  I've seen that
> changing the behavior for ToDo's is on the to-do list (!), and it might be
> worth considering saving the whole thread as well.
>
> Potentially this opens up a rather elaborate set of rules for various
> combinations of statuses and the message vs the thread.  This might be a
> nice area to make scriptable.
>
> Maybe the context menu option should be "expiry" rather than "expire."
>
Maybe that name change might be more comforting.  I'd say that the biggest 
problem at the moment is that the option to safeguard files by marking them 
important is in the main configuration Misc page, so entirely separate from 
the folder expiry options.  Personally I would think it vital to set that 
first, before enabling any folder expiry options.  (I'm not advocating it 
being set as a default - not everyone may want it.)

The right-click context menu on a folder allows you to set different expiry 
for read and unread mails.  I generally set an expiry for read, but not for 
unread.  They are check-boxes, so it's easy to see what you are doing.  If 
you set an expiry, you are then given the choice between deleting 
permanently, or moving to another folder, and that can be local or imap.

There is a clear warning that whatever options you have set will be acted upon 
immediately upon closing the dialogue.  At that point you can simply uncheck 
the boxes if you are unsure as to whether the folder in question is ready for 
this.

Hope that helps.

Anne



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