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List:       kdepim-users
Subject:    Re: [kdepim-users] kmail's disappearing uitilities and menu items?
From:       Bill Anderson <bill () noreboots ! com>
Date:       2007-05-16 0:54:53
Message-ID: 6B3673BC-B7B9-4C4C-8C9A-6B1B93E5E32A () noreboots ! com
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On May 14, 2007, at 12:40 PM, Anne Wilson wrote:

>>>
>>> did before?  And why is "folder holds a mailing list" _only_
>>> showing up as a
>>> menu item from that top "folder" selection but not when you right-
>>> click on
>>> the folder and not under properties?
>>
>> I don't remember when it did this but I do know I've wondered why
>> not, since that was where I'd expect it to be.
>>
> You do realise, of course, that you can set a toolbar icon for  
> this?  Settings
>> Configure Toolbars > Main Toolbar <kmail_part> > New Message to  
>> List.  You
> can move it around on the toolbar, too, to suit yourself.

But then you are still traveling to the top menu area. When I create  
a new folder for a mailing list, I should be able to right click the  
folder and select the mailing list options for that folder. Besides,  
why should I have to make icon buttons for all the per-folder actions  
I might need?

> OTOH, I never use it.  Why?  Because under the main menu item  
> 'Folder' there
> is, as you remark, 'Mailing List Management'.  All messages in the  
> kde-pim
> folder are automatically replied to list, with manual change  
> available if
> required.

That is the item(s) I should see on right-click.
>
> IMO it would be best if the main menu items were those that set  
> defaults, such
> as the HTML setting, with right-click choices for individual  
> folders.  That
> would seem a more logical grouping, to me.

Right, and 'Folder contains mailing list' is a *per-folder* setting/ 
action/item.

Just as when I want to create a filter on a message I can right click  
the message and do so (which I miss in Mail.app). Let the "main"  
folder menu have general settings for folders, and have the per- 
folder settings on the context menu.  Incidentally, I should have  
available all menu-like actions on the per-message context menu as well.

Better yet, have the context menu and leave it at that. It is less  
confusing to users to have the two mean two things. If you insist on  
both, make them the same menu. That is the least confusing to new  
users. At least your suggestion wold give a decent explanation for  
new users as to why they are different. But then, for general default  
folder settings, put it in the main configuration for KMail, with the  
per-folder context menu providing an ability to override general  
settings for more specific control.

To quote my wife when I explained to her that there was the Folder  
menu and the per-folder context menu, and that some thing are in one  
and some in the other, "Well that's just stupid.". My wife is a Linux  
user and has been for years, and she makes an excellent point, IMO.  
She's no hacker or zealot, she is essentially a "normal" Linux  
Desktop user, albeit a smart one.

Why confuse the user with two options that conceptually should be the  
same thing but are different, and not in a specific way?

Consider this as well. Mac users are used to traveling al the way to  
the top of the screen for their Menu items (I just got OSX and am  
learning). Yet with Mail.app, ctrl-clicking the message still brings  
up a context menu that is almost identical to the Message menu.

Cheers,
Bill
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