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List:       kde-user
Subject:    Re: gz ??
From:       Oliver Kullmann <O.Kullmann () swansea ! ac ! uk>
Date:       2001-07-31 17:34:34
[Download RAW message or body]

> On Monday 30 July 2001 18:25, Oliver Kullmann wrote:
> > Hello,
> <snip>
> 
> After slowly counting to 10 I decided not to flame you or just a 
> little bit.
>

let's see
 
> You're complaining about the unusability of kde2 and you give two 
> examples. You may or may not have a point with your criticism 
> (yes, it's true, single compressed files are not opened with the 
> associated application of the original file by default, but I 
> think that's not a wanted feature anyway, because I want to see 
> first what's in there before running an application on it), but 
> since this is not a show stopper it's hardly a criteria for kdes 
> usability.

With these two examples, which just happened to be the current
problems, I tried to give some impression on the labyrinth which
*I* have to fight when coping with KDE (by the way, my point of
view is not comparative, that is, I never used microsoft products,
only Unix and Linux (with KDE), and I don't want to say, that this
or that product is better ..., but I just want to speak about KDE
(which is my only Linux experience)).

> Then you go on about the lack of documentation.

that is the main issue here --- if the desktop environment does not
behave as I expect it, fine, then I try to change it, and as soon as
I try to do something a little bit more advanced, I fail;

> Hell,

in fact, I'm doomed: For political reasons I can't use microsoft or apple
products, Gnome doesn't seem to be better, and anyway, I don't have the
time to try all possibilities, so I just decided, I'm using KDE, and
thus in fact there is no alternative for me --- I HAVE to use it
 
> this is free software,

"free" has a lot of meanings, and the meaning that I don't pay *money* has no
value to me; in fact, I prefer to pay some money, so within the last 1 
1/2 years I purchased three Suse distributions (6.2, 6.4, 7.2), so that I
get some support (and also I want to support Suse, which basically seems 
likeable to me), and if KDE for example would offer some support where you 
have to pay something I would take it --- but this choice doesn't exist (yet)
 

> the price you are paying is to pull your 
> finger out and try to find out things for yourself.

my feeling is that I perhaps have already wasted too much time to find
out these things myself --- inventing the wheel again and again

> And now I'm 
> going to flame you:

I see

> Your mail pissed me off because it's so 
> typical for a certain type of users of open source. Where do you 
> all come from?

I'm a mathematician and computer scientist (that is, a *theoretical*
computer scientist, but I am also developing a software project on
combinatorial optimisation and constraint satisfaction in C)

> You expect to be spoonfed every little bit of 
> information and if things don't work because of your unaptness or 
> using crappy distributions or you found out your favorite 
> computer mag was lying when they told you linux is the better 
> windows, you start whining.

it seems to me that documentation on open source software I'm using
has not arrived yet at the level of spoonfeeding --- but would be nice!

> No problem asking questions or 
> critizising in a constructive manner, but don't dump your 
> frustrations here when you can't handle the pitfalls of free 
> software.

I think if the notion of "community" (used quite often) makes any sense
then it should be possible to express frustration (in fact to me it
seems very necessary);

there might be a problem of finding the "right" mailing list, but this
seems again another labyrinth to me, and so I decided that a general user
mailing list could be the right place for not only asking technical
questions but also discussing a bit of our human (and political) relations
with KDE (and thus thanks for your answer!)

> If you're missing a feature write it yourself

I think if we would work together (instead of everybody building his
own castle) open source, free software ... would do better.

> or file a 
> bug report/wishlist item.

the only information I have about the mailing lists is from the KDE
web site where it's said "kde-user - users help each other", so I thought
I could find some beings like me ("users")

> If you find the documentation is not 
> satisfying the documentation team is always looking for people 
> contributing.

if you think that open source ... is only for people who want to spend
a lot of time with it then you restrict the whole movement to some sort
of cult --- and that is basically undemocratically, since society needs
open source;

it seems to me much more desirable, if much more people would be involved,
each one just spending, say, 5 minutes per day on the issue

> If you don't want to contribute

in fact I already contributed (via my e-mails)

> shut up and go home 

I'm already at home

> or expect to be toasted.
>

shouldn't be so easy

Oliver
 
> Joerg
> -- 
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