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List:       kde-usability
Subject:    RE: Redhat 7.1 and KDE2.2 are go! - But not for everyone
From:       "Hoppin.Bob" <hoppin () niehs ! nih ! gov>
Date:       2001-08-20 19:15:40
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Having just repsonded to this, I think you said it better and more
concisely than I did.

Why leave KDE at the mercy of the distros?  The only thing I added
was the problem of being an advocate for KDE when the project
doesn't do easy-to-install KDE distros.  I'd like to see distros
for RH, Mandrake and the most used Unix and non-KDE distro.  Ie.,
Four targeted KDE distros.  But then, I'm going to try to
contribute to the Kpackage effort and figure out why the distros
make this such an ugly exercise.

-----Original Message-----
From: mattc 
Sent: 2001, August 20, Monday 2:48 PM
To: kde-usability@mail.kde.org
Subject: Re: Redhat 7.1 and KDE2.2 are go! - But not for everyone


Alright, this is an interesting conversation.  I'll bite.  Comments 
throughout.

>
> this would be nice, and several distros do provide something like
this
> already. this is a distribution specific task. for that matter, why
> do the distros make the KDE packages at all? why don't the KDE
people make
> all the binaries?

Good point.  It is not KDE's job to custom fit the product to every
distro 
out there.  Now let's look at if from both the distro and consumer's
point of 
view.

Distros
If it is easy to upgrade the desktop, there is less incentive for
people to 
go out and buy the next release of my product.  As far as I know
Debian is 
the only one who attempts to make it easy to upgrade, and that one is 
maintained by its users so there is obvious incentive.

Customer
KDE isn't finished because it exposes a bunch of library files when I
go to 
install it.  Any time the end user is exposed to computer language it
is a 
bad thing.  It is too difficult, maybe I'll try Gnome and see if they
are any 
better.  (Fortunatly they are not)

>
> there is nothing that says that a group of volunteers couldn't get
together
> and supply such a binary packaging + support service to the
community, but
> it has been and will probably continue to be the position of the KDE
team
> that it is up to the individual distributions to provide binary
packages
> and support for their products.

Why KDE woudn't want some influence over a users first impression (the
most 
important one) is beyond me.  

>
> there simply are too many distros/OSes (and KDE is in a tough place
if it
> supports just a few, for obvious political reasons) and that is the
_whole_
> point of a distribution: to create, integrate and test binary
packages and
> supply user support.

Now why would they be in a tough place politically.  Just put out a
simple 
mission statement for the project.  Here, I'll write a first draft
now. "KDE 
seeks to make installing upgrades as easy, and trouble free, and 
comprehensive as possible.  To meet that goal KDE supports
distribution 
specific installer programs.  Depending on VOLUNTEER support and
demand for 
specific distrubutions KDE will make installers available as they
become 
stable." 

If someone complains that KDE doesn't support their particular Distro,
KDE 
can still stand behind the one you are standing on now.  All
installers are 
written by supporters of their particular distro.  If you want one,
write 
one.  KDE will be happy to make it available on our website.

>
> if RH is not doing this for you, use another distro or step up to
the plate
> yourself for the distro and write a HOWTO, provide support of email
> lists/irc channels and/or make your own packages (which I someone
actually
> did for KDE2.2 on RH7.1).

Exactly my point.  The big distros will be supported under the
installer 
program quickly because there are a lot of programmers who want to see
an 
installer made, and will make one.  I say bring it back into KDE
control so 
we can do quality assurance, and then put it up on the KDE website
where it 
can do the most good, and improve the end users experience.  When
someone 
comes looking to upgrade KDE, the first and likely only place they
will look 
is the KDE website after all.

Leverage the strengths of the broader open source community.  Easing 
instillation can only lead to greater market acceptance for the
product.  
What developer doesn't want that?
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