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List:       kde-usability
Subject:    Re: [KDE Usability] On the future of the menubar
From:       Jos Poortvliet <jospoortvliet () gmail ! com>
Date:       2010-02-26 15:15:04
Message-ID: 201002261615.05220.jospoortvliet () gmail ! com
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On Friday 26 February 2010 08:44:18 James Tyrer wrote:
> Dotan Cohen wrote:
> >>> How is System Settings different than any other KDE application in this
> >>> regard?
> >> 
> >> Many KCM modules need a lot of vertical space. Some can be improved,
> >> others cannot (speaking as someone who spent quite some time trying to
> >> fix some of them before 4.0 was released). Therefore it makes sense to
> >> leave most space available to what matters.
> > 
> > Is that not true of a PDF viewer? The whole page doesn't fit on a
> > vertical screen (even less on a widescreen). So why does Okular still
> > have a menubar?
> > 
> > Or how about a web browser? Or an office suite? Most apps are limited
> > by vertical space, System Settings is not special in this regard.
> > 
> >> This is not specific to System Settings, so I think it would be good to
> >> standardize a "reduced menu" in the HIG, similar to what Rekonq created.
> >> The use-case would be applications which do not need large menus and
> >> have important vertical space needs.
> > 
> > In general, I agree. I have not seen the rekonq implementation, though.
> > 
> >> - This menu would be included in the toolbar either as a "Menu" button,
> >> or as an icon if horizontal space is limited (that's the case for
> >> Rekonq, where horizontal space is best left to the url lineedit).
> > 
> > There is a feature request for that:
> > https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=211304
> > 
> >> - This menu would contain items like "Configure", "Quit" or "Help", with
> >> "Help" being a submenu like Rekonq does.
> >> 
> >> - A limit should be defined to let developers decide whether it makes
> >> sense for them to use a "reduced menu".
> 
> This is starting to not make much sense.  Consistency is very important.
>   I find SystemSettings a bit disorienting.  I presume that it is
> because it doesn't follow the HIG.  IIRC, this is called proactive
> inhibition in learning theory.  The hybridization of the MenuBar and a
> ToolBar might seem to be innovative to the person that designed it, but
> to me, it is simply inconsistency.  Does any other application have the
> "Help" MenuBar category available on a ToolBar?
> 
> SystemSettings should have a Menu.  I would presume that it could be
> hidden with <Ctrl><m> which I do in Konqueror when I need more vertical
> space.
> 
> Obviously, if SS doesn't have many major menu categories, then the menu
> is going to be rather minimal.
> 
> The question which I think needs to be considered is whether it should
> be permissible for the MenuBar and a ToolBar to appear on the same line
> the way the multiple ToolBars are.  If this were allowed, it should
> resolve the problem since a MenuBar with only:
> 
> 	File
> 	Go
> 	Settings
> 	Help
> 
> isn't going to take much space -- less than half of the screen width.
> 
> There are other things which could be more consistent or improved.
> 
> It would probably be getter to use the correct icon: "help".  I think
> that it is OK to use the KDE specific icon since I really don't know
> what the "system-help" is supposed to be used for.  There is no standard
> icon name for the Help Menu since the word "Help" rather than an icon is
> supposed to be used.
> 
> IIUC, it is permitted for icons on ToolBars to appear and disappear
> based on context -- that they should do this rather than be grayed out
> (which is only done when they are usable in the context but not
> currently usable).  So, the "back" icon on the HybridBar should
> disappear when it can not be used rather than being grayed out.  The
> HybridBar could also have a "Quit" icon that could also appear and
> disappear when it is needed.  Actually the result would be that an icon
> for either "Back" or "Quit" (but not both) would appear on the HybridBar.
> 
> The text box on the HybridBar is labeled "Search".  Not sure if that is
> best.  It isn't really 'search', but it isn't really 'find' either, more
> like 'filter', but not exactly.  Theory suggests that a different term
> should be used, or perhaps the label isn't needed.


My my. Not entirely related but I just read the blog below and it's worth a 
read - the PDF contains a lot of interesting ideas...

http://blogs.gnome.org/seth/2010/02/26/let-the-wild-rumpus-begin/
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